Time for football to follow the lead of hurling and introduce proper competitions like The Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard cups etc because the mismatches like this with Dublin and Louth are painful and no use to anyone. Louth would do alright against either Wexford or Longford but this is hard on them. Imagine what Dublin would do to Carlow.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 03/06/2012 17:41:52    1186201

No way should football follow Hurlings lead.
The All Ireland should stay just that, the All Ireland. It should be the right of every county to contest the All Ireland every single year.
While 3 or 4 teams may dominate in any given year or decade, there are always the oppurtunity for suprises and upsets.

Football is fairly healthy in comparison to Hurling, i mean that regarding the amount of teams capable of challenging for the Sam Maguire. I am aware that some elements are not happy with football tactics, and football as a spectacle. Hurling has 2 possible winners in Kilkenny, and Tipperary. With Cork the only team outside of them with any real hope. In football there are 3 current favourites, with another 5 in with a shot depending on the draw.

The standard bookies/pundits favourites are always Tyrone, Kerry, Cork and Dublin, naturally as they have won the last 4 titles. With Donegal, Kildare, Mayo, Down all up there, and teams like Galway, Armagh, Meath and Derry all capable of taking scalps of the top teams.
I mean no disrespect to other teams i havent mentioned, that may be on par or better than the teams i did mention.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 03/06/2012 21:31:31    1186399

Well said garrymc. 100% agree. There is talk of dropping the provincial system too. No way. Ask anyone in westmeath should it be dropped. 2004 had never won one trimmed dublin along way. Laois same, kildare 98 same. Although had won it had not in years
Dublin are at the peak now along with cork. But it is just 2 years ago since meath put 5 goals past them. The problem with this idea is where do you draw the line? Wexford would surely be seen as a top tier team yet longford should have taken them yesterday just like wexford should have beat dub last year. I fundamentally disagree with this and the points made by o'rourke and mcstay last night. Now no one wants to see what happened to louth yesterday but this is same county that was within 40 second and a bad ref decision of been leinster champions 2 years ago.
So what teams do you drop? Is it 16 by 2 or 11 by 3? What decides the rankings? League? Cause even if it was in place this year louth would still be in top tier been div 2 and same thing would happen.
Its championship anything can happen. Even in carlow there is optimism of beating meath come sunday.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 04/06/2012 08:42:26    1186416

I agree - what happened yesterday is not the norm. Every team should have the chance to compete in their respective provincial even if it means that the only positive is that a trip to Croker. Removing the chance to compete in the province would be bad for the game.

ged (Louth) - Posts: 319 - 04/06/2012 09:31:04    1186421

I think that would be stupid Louth came within a wisker of winning a leinster title against Meath two years ago.
Look at Sligo and roscommon also. If teams want to get to the next level the need to be playing in big championship games.
Louth was awful yesterday but it that goal chance was taken early in the match they would have been 01-01 up and maybe Dublin start to doubth themselves.

Look at Tipp against Kerry they could have caused an upset.

I don't think you have football teams that far ahead of each other you have a top four or five teams but you have another four or five teams that can beat the top five teams on a good day for the so called weaker team of course.

lester09 (Monaghan) - Posts: 127 - 04/06/2012 09:39:20    1186425

Bosco
County: Carlow
Posts: 282

1186201
Time for football to follow the lead of hurling and introduce proper competitions like The Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard cups etc because the mismatches like this with Dublin and Louth are painful and no use to anyone. Louth would do alright against either Wexford or Longford but this is hard on them. Imagine what Dublin would do to Carlow.

Will never happen, Sean Kelly tried to do that for teams who were in division 4 that got knocked out before semi final of prov championship, but a lot of teams didnt really want to field a their best team in it.

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 04/06/2012 09:49:46    1186430

Definitely not, we cannot have a two tier system in football, that will signal the death of the championship we love. Every county has the right to compete for Sam.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 04/06/2012 10:48:12    1186457

Wrong brendtheredhand this system is killing our games we have to wait about 6 weeks into the championship to see a decent game. In every county you have different grades of championships and when a club wins an intermediate championship it is cherished and celebrated in its own right so why not at county level ? win your intermediate and then the next year you have the right to play for sam.
The provincial system is outdated and should be scrapped but because the people who hold the power in those councils, some of whom have full time positions see this as a threat it will not happen.Getting rid of the provincial championships would not mean the provincial councils would have to go everthing else would stay in place apart from senior intercounty championships.

johnsee (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 04/06/2012 11:07:51    1186474

Nah lads, I have to say I'm more convinced than ever about this. The likes of Sligo and Louth etc are the exceptions that prove the rule in my opinion. Sligo wouldn't have a hope of winning Leinster while Tipp will never win Munster, forget about it. The only provincial championships worth talking about are Ulster football and Munster hurling. Even at that Fermanagh have never won one and I don't see Antrim or Cavan pulling up trees anytime soon. Although it pains me to say it I don't think my own county will ever win another Leinster football title but we could let's say make a division two of the league L
like Longford. Longford also have no hope of ever winning any kind of championship the way things stand, kidding yourself if you think they will. Tyrone man says every county has the right to compete for the Sam Maguire, I wish that were true but in reality only Division one teams are and you know it. The league is a much better competition and should supersede the championship in the future.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 04/06/2012 11:51:07    1186505

i wouldnt say having two tiers would be the idea
if your going to change the format i think you could have a draw and put 4 differant sections simliar to the provincial championships just four even sections of 8 in each.and have them as knock out with the qualifiers still in place for the loosers as it is now it would just mean you dont have an imbalance of one province having more teams then an other and you would also have differant teams playing each other in each section each year

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/06/2012 12:07:36    1186518

Bosco how can you write off all these counties chances so easily , Tipp and Cavan are very strong at underage , how do you know that this might not translate to senior level , like you're just saying this to try and prove your point which is wrong , Monaghan , Sligo , Roscommon , Limerick , Louth , Laois etc are teams who would do anything for provincial medals and have an outside chance of winning one , but don't have a hope of winning the All Ireland , like look at Westmeath and Laois back in 2003 and 2004 who are you to say that this wont happen again and a team will come form nowhere to win a Leinster/Connacht/Munster/Leinster which almost happened to Louth in 2010 , happened to Roscommon in 2010 and almost to Sligo , almost happened to Limerick 2004 , 2009 and 2010 and almost happened to Louth in 2010 , without the provincial titles these teams have nothing to play for .
This thread was brought on by the beating Dublin handed out Louth yesterday I presume , well whats the difference Dublin beating Fermanagh or Leitrim or Clare in an open draw to Dublin thrashing Louth in Leinster ???
Changing the format is not the way to go about rectifying these beatings , its up to the weaker teams to improve and get up to the level of your Kerrys ,Corks , Dublins etc the way Kildare have done and Armagh did and the way Cavan , Roscomon and Tipp are trying to do

stekhli (Dublin) - Posts: 3121 - 04/06/2012 12:37:31    1186548

I have said for a long time that merging Munster with Connacht would solve a lot of issues with London and New York moving between the three "provinces" each year to give everyone in the country a chance of meeting them. Kerry and Cork winning Munster means nothing to them. Limerick's time for breaking the strangehold has passed, Tipp are making progress but its going to take a number of years to come to fruition and Clare and Waterford won't make a breakthrough in the near future. Connacht is more tightly bunched but after a levelling off for a few years, Mayo have gone well clear again, Galway have taken a step forward but could as easily be caught by Sligo next Saturday. Leitrim might have been tricky a few years back but Mayo will hammer them this year. Therefore Mayo have only to win one serious game to reach the last 8 which doesn't help them or Connacht football. A Connacht title doesn't really mean much to Mayo at this stage, it would be useful for Galway at this stage in our development but not much more, ok it means a lot to Sligo, Roscommon and Leitrim but Sligo had a much stronger team when they went on qualifier runs around 2001/2002 than the average side who beat a desperate Galway side in 2007, similarly with Roscommon who won a provincial title almost by default, arguably they were stronger in other years.

There isn't that many teams who are totally uncompetitive. Louth finished mid-table in division 2 so are we just going to have an All-Ireland competed for by 9 or 10 teams? Antrim, Fermanagh both got to provincial finals in the not too distant past, Limerick have been yo-yoing up and down from division 3 to 4 but have generally given a good account of themselves in the championship, Sligo were division 4 not so long ago, Roscommon likewise. Tipperary are division 4 next year but in general are on the up, similar enough with Cavan. Carlow would probably be regarded as bottom 3 or 4 but took the scalp of Louth last year. There is a gap between the top 3 or 4 and the rest at the moment but there are a lot of unpredictable games that add greatly to the championship. Longford v Wexford was an exciting game for the neutral yesterday, no-one would have paid any heed if that was some sort of tier 2 competition.

It would be no harm for the GAA to try something radical though, the qualifiers in 2001 were like a breath of fresh air for the Championship, maybe its time to run off the provincial campaigns in the spring and bring together an open draw type championship based on that.

Stuckinthepast (Galway) - Posts: 472 - 04/06/2012 12:41:56    1186556

stekhli

Tipp have only become strong at underage level very recently and translating underage success to senior level is quite difficult.
The structure of the championships should change. Rediculous that most countys only get 2 maybe 3 games in the championship every summer
Changing the format would help the weaker teams get up to the levels of the kerrys,corks, dublins etc as if the format was changed to give the weaker sides more games they would have more games to improve and get better

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/06/2012 12:47:27    1186564

Bosco you can't tell the future I think we'll see Cavan winning the Anglo Celt cup within the next 8 years , despite the sense of authority you speak with over this subject I dont think you know what you are talking about , how can you predict what'll happen in the future ??? you cant just like nobody precited Down would make the All Ireland in 2010 and Louth would be a horrific refereeing decision away from winning a Leinster title , I expect the championship to have proved your point wrong by AT THE LATEST August

stekhli (Dublin) - Posts: 3121 - 04/06/2012 12:57:20    1186578

its a crazy outdated system that is just damaging the weaker counties year after year,....also contributing to poor attendances....should be a two tier system with the strongest comin out of both tiers and playn each other towards the latter stages...we have to move with the times ....actually felt sorry for Louth yst, very demoralising...

Mollymalone (Dublin) - Posts: 1137 - 04/06/2012 13:22:13    1186593

Very good points stekhli.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 3049 - 04/06/2012 13:28:00    1186601

Certainly not trying to start an argument here folks and I'll be the first to admit I'm no authority but Clare, Carlow, Leitrim, Longford, Waterford, London and in all likelihood Wicklow, Antrim, Westmeath and Offaly are in championship competitions that they have no hope of winning. Connacht is a bit of an anomaly as there are so few teams in it and the superpowers there of Galway and Meath aren't always as dominant as their Munster counterparts of Kerry and Cork. I mean seriously the Munster football championship is between Kerry and Cork and that's it. I doubt very much if any of the posters on here would be willing to back against that. Sligo or Roscommon might cause an upset here or there but would you honestly give them any chance in Munster or Leinster? Look I don't know what the exact format would be but I'm fairly sure it needs changing anyway. The league is a better competition than the championship. Furthermore I can't really take a Dub's opinion too seriously on this kind of a topic as what does it matter to you sure you've the biggest pick, best resources, home advantage etc.. So it doesn't really concern you. Kildare or Meath might push you but that's it isn't it?
If Dublin continue to get their act together as they have done over the last few years no one will live with you and then it's gonna get quare boring laaaaaad!!!!!

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 04/06/2012 13:46:04    1186610

I would consider myself a traditionalist and i would have been a strong advocate of the the current championship format however
i am starting to think it is time to shake things up a bit. Every year we have a two county procession in munster and the same goes
for connaught. Leinster is not much better with 3 counties sharing the spoils with a rare notable exception, with ulster the most competitve
province of all.
So how do we resolve this well to my mind there are two viable solutions
1. Split the current championship in to an a and b champioship. The basis for qualification for each group would depend on league position at the
end of 2013. All teams would then go into groups of four with the top two in each group playing in quarterfinals and so on to the finals where you
could have the a and b finals played together on the third sunday in september, this would be great for football in weaker counties as it would keep
kids interested in the side all through the summer. Finally the winning finalists would be promoted and a play between the bottom 4 teams in the a championship
with one team being relegated

2. Start the national league in april but change it two 3 divisions with 10/11 teams in each group and run off the champioship as normal but just get rid of the back
door (its a very unfair system anyway) this would greatly improve the league and the championship would be akin to the fa cup in england ie. the trophy everyone really has a chance to win. With regards to fixture congestion well some of the league matches could be midweek affairs played under lights with sundays reservered
for the all ireland championship.

atta (Meath) - Posts: 710 - 04/06/2012 14:01:33    1186620

im not sure if changing it would make much of a difference, im really looking forward to seeing my county this weekend against meath, we probably won't win but all week you can dream of it, if we were playing wicklow in the first round of a secondary comp then it wouldn't be the same.

there is always a surprise team in the qualifiers, longford wicklow limerick wexford have all had relative success through them

munster is an issue, it's 20 year since anyone bar cork or kerry has won it

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1711 - 04/06/2012 14:32:27    1186646

Point taken Barrowsider,
but do you remember heading to Croke park in '96 or headquarters in '08 was it? Both of them hammerings and as much asI'd like to be positive about the weekend it's probably just a question of us trying to keep the score down really isn't it.
I think the idea of keeping a competition going in the hope of an upset once a year or every few years is hardly the way forward. You can go from 32nd in the country to perhaps top 16-20 in a few years but to go from top 8 to 3-4 is virtually impossible for all bar a few. The way it's set up fundamentally goes against hope of genuine progress for the weaker counties unless of course transfers were possible!!ha ha!! I know you're sick of hearing me bang on about that one. I just think asking lads to give huge effort for competitions no reasonable person could expect them to win will become less and less attractive as time goes by.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 04/06/2012 15:31:13    1186683