51longago
County: Mayo
Posts: 1432

1177000 "Would Donegal fans accept that the reason they play this defensive tactic is because they simply do not have the players to compete in a conventional 6-2-6 formation?"


Nail on the head mo chara.

They have found a system to compensate for their inability to play natural free flowing football. It is their right at the end of the day, it is a horrible system and one can only hope that a fast natural attacking team puts them out sooner rather than later.

Nothing would give me more satisfaction to see them hammered by a football team.

It is an amateur game and its principal should be honesty and authenticity. If tactics go down this road any further , it should be looked at to find a way of rule change to combat negativity.

Traditional footballing counties are the posters complaining the non traditional counties are not, speaks volumes

There were 5 football championship games yesterday and Donegal had the second highest scoring total mainly due to the fact that they cantered the last 20 minutes. What is the problem with them actually defending properly? More to the point what is this "natural free flowing football" everyone talks about? It appears to me that traditionalists want teams to kick the ball from midfield high into a full forward and see what happens.

Donegal play a high pressure game which is basketball type in its nature. Everyone defends, everyone attacks. They have not mastered the second part as yet but the fact that 6 points were scored by defenders and midfielders including their full back suggests that they are on the right road. Also this suggestion that Donegal do not have the players to play open football is a joke. For years they were that intent on playing open football that nobody wanted to defend and thus you could have driven a bus through their defence. Now they went back to basics, defend first, score second. For anyone to suggest that Murphy, McFadden, McBrearty, Molloy, Kavanagh, Lacey and McHugh do not have the ability to play open attacking football is ludicrous and indicates an extreme ignorance on the part of those who espouse this view. McGuinness is a shrewd operator who has done what needed to be done in order to make Donegal competitive again. The bottome line is that pretty football is lovely to watch but quite often is ineffective against the top sides. First be effective then be pretty.

Donegal will be hard to beat this year not only because they defend well but because they are now also starting to attack effectively as well. You won't lose too many games knocking in 1-16 every game

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 21/05/2012 12:57:36    1177061

Agree with Lockjaw also in that Donegals tactics are often the same as Dublin and . However at the end of last year I have never seen anything like it, they moved into a class if their own then.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 21/05/2012 12:59:17    1177062

first off i wasnt at the match so im only seeing what rte cameras want you to see but on sunday game donegal looked to have evolved alot better
certainly on the counter attack they were kicking the ball alot more then last year and half backs and corner backs getting into good positions so i wouldnt be in the lets slaughter them camp just yet.it certainly looked a step forward from the way they set up against us last year

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/05/2012 13:10:35    1177074

Donegal looked good yesterday against a young inexperienced cavan outfit id like to think we can give them a bit more trouble than cavan offered we have the firepower upfront we will need goals 2 beat that system and put them on the back foot if donegal are trailing by 4 or 5 pts they will have to attack more but they will definitely be even more defensive against the bradley bros space will be at a premium.

93vintageyear (Derry) - Posts: 301 - 21/05/2012 13:15:07    1177081

51longago Your usernames speaks volumes. You are more or less saying Donegal are not a traditional football county. Mayo teams have been playing traditional (naive) style football since 1951 and haven't won an All Ireland since. How many finals did Mayo enter with the same game plan as always, let's attack and hope we do enough to win the game and how many times have you went home with the tails between the legs.
Donegal have some of the most talented players in Ireland at the minute and are well capable of attacking as well as defending but you don't have to be a genius to work out that Kerry, Dublin and maybe Tyrone and now Galway have forwards that if you give them space they will beat you easily. Donegal won't give them that space and although we may fall short at some stage this year we won't be beaten easily. Will the same be said of Mayo?
The headlines coming out of your county these past months have been "we need to get tougher, harder in the tackle, defend better"!! Be careful what you comdemn as it may come back to haunt you!!
I'll be honest and say that some of Donegals play last year was awful to watch and as a fan and I'd have loved to see them playing attacking football and still winning but I'll take the winning over free flowing and losing. Give this team a chance and don't be basing your assumptions on a game against Cavan that if we had wanted to would've won by 20 points. Time will tell on this team but I trust in Mc Guinness and the team will not be letting any Donegal person down.
Tir Conaill Abú

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 21/05/2012 13:24:52    1177099

Well for those saying Donegal have the players and the talent to play open attacking football, why don't they do it? What's to fear? Galway are a case in point, they stuck 3-15 past Roscommon yesterday playing great football, route one stuff, and the combination of Meehan and Joyce was devastating. There was none of the 12 men behind the ball borefest we've all come to know and hate.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 21/05/2012 13:33:48    1177117

Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal
Posts: 231

1177099
51longago Your usernames speaks volumes. You are more or less saying Donegal are not a traditional football county. Mayo teams have been playing traditional (naive) style football since 1951 and haven't won an All Ireland since. How many finals did Mayo enter with the same game plan as always, let's attack and hope we do enough to win the game and how many times have you went home with the tails between the legs.
Donegal have some of the most talented players in Ireland at the minute and are well capable of attacking as well as defending but you don't have to be a genius to work out that Kerry, Dublin and maybe Tyrone and now Galway have forwards that if you give them space they will beat you easily. Donegal won't give them that space and although we may fall short at some stage this year we won't be beaten easily. Will the same be said of Mayo?
The headlines coming out of your county these past months have been "we need to get tougher, harder in the tackle, defend better"!! Be careful what you comdemn as it may come back to haunt you!!
I'll be honest and say that some of Donegals play last year was awful to watch and as a fan and I'd have loved to see them playing attacking football and still winning but I'll take the winning over free flowing and losing. Give this team a chance and don't be basing your assumptions on a game against Cavan that if we had wanted to would've won by 20 points. Time will tell on this team but I trust in Mc Guinness and the team will not be letting any Donegal person down.
Tir Conaill Abú

LAD.

Mayo play good football and it has worked for them, they contested a league final a few weeks ago. I hope they play yous at some stage, open attacking football will bury that style of your's that we all know and hate. And yesterday you beat what amounted to little more than an U21 team, and couldn't win by more than six points? We had 2 teenagers in the full back line for God's sake, as well as 3 other debutantes. And with a bit more luck (hitting the crossbar, and post twice) we would have given yous quite a scare.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 21/05/2012 13:48:00    1177139

Keep the posts coming Sergeant.... Most hilarious stuff I've read in years....

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 21/05/2012 14:04:50    1177164

Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 1487

Shows what you know we've played Mayo twice this year and have beaten them by a combined total of 9 points....

As for your young team well if they are as good as you boys are blowing them up to be beating an ultra defensive Donegal team yesterday should have been no problem... We ourselves had two teenagers players both in their first year out of minor so don't give me that lark..

You can come up with all the excuses you want but at the end of the day that Cavan team yesterday outside of Keating were muck, were lucky to escape relegation to Division 4 and aren't far away from the likes of London and Kilkenny.

theboydonegood (Donegal) - Posts: 522 - 21/05/2012 14:05:14    1177166

Come on now Sergeant_Slash how has it worked for Mayo, yes, they contested a league final but did they win it, No. and to say we could only beat Cavan by six points is correct but Donegal had taken the foot way of the gas and could have upped it any time to win by more. At one stage in the second half the Cavan full back was having a grand wee talk with Leo Mc Loone in the small square, hardly championship pace!! This was a point that Jim Mc Guinness even highlighted in post match comments, that we should have been more ruthless!!
Nice of you to talk for everyone on your comments too "that style of your's that we all know and hate" I'm sure all of Cavan are delighted to have a spokesperson like yourself!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 21/05/2012 14:12:16    1177175

Tir Conaill Abu
51longago Your usernames speaks volumes. You are more or less saying Donegal are not a traditional football county. Mayo teams have been playing traditional (naive) style football since 1951 and haven't won an All Ireland since. How many finals did Mayo enter with the same game plan as always, let's attack and hope we do enough to win the game and how many times have you went home with the tails between the legs

As opposed to saying 'let's defend and hope we do enough to win the game'? As regards going home with our tails between our legs, yes we did, but 30 other counties had alreay travelled that road before us, so what does that say about everyone else?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 21/05/2012 14:18:10    1177182

Think Omagh's analysis above is fair. Well played Donegal seemed to attack with more support play than at times last year. Think there game will evolve but will have the obligation to work 2 to 15 which is manadatory for any team with ambition.
They certainly do have talented forwards...but question puzzles me - why does Molly not get a run/start? Seen him win a few games (Notably against Tyrone last year) with an eye for goal.

Cavan's day will not be too far away - the u-21's need to get blooded as seniors but with the success they've had at minor and u-21 recently they'll be a force in the next couple of years. Immediate target is to try to get promotion and exposure to better teams before the championship starts.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 21/05/2012 14:26:45    1177194

So time travel works, I seem to have made it back to 2011. Jaysus lads, I know its Monday, but some of you are in an extra grumpy mood today. The usual HS suspects are out in force decrying Donegal's tactics, and Spillane couldn't resist getting a dig in yesterday. I'm afraid you're going to have to learn to live with it. Jim is setting this team out as he sees fit, they're winning matches, they were involved in the second highest scoring game yesterday actually. So the people of Donegal, who are spending their hard earned cash following the team in these difficult times, are getting their money's worth. And it makes it all the more satisfying to see everyone on their high horses telling us we're the big bad wolf. Although I have to say, I'm very disappointed at the reaction of some of the Cavan supporters, they have in the past always been very gracious, win or lose. They were well beaten yesterday, but best of luck in the qualifiers

petejoeduff (Donegal) - Posts: 329 - 21/05/2012 14:41:08    1177211

Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 1487

1177117 Well for those saying Donegal have the players and the talent to play open attacking football, why don't they do it? What's to fear? Galway are a case in point, they stuck 3-15 past Roscommon yesterday playing great football, route one stuff, and the combination of Meehan and Joyce was devastating. There was none of the 12 men behind the ball borefest we've all come to know and hate.

Interestingly Roscommon also played with a considerable number of men behind the ball only they did not know how to properly play the system. You sound very much like Mr Spillane eulogising about Galways style of play. Galway are a good side and with a fit again Meehan will cause any team bother, however they will likely not see themselves with an ocean of time to pick the perfect ball into the forwards that they got yesterday. Roscommon I thought were actually worse than Cavan yesterday and that is saying something. You should also remember that Roscommon had long given up the ghost before Meehan and Joyce come on. I seem to recall last year when Mayo beat them out the gate before Meath finally put them out of their misery that the likes of Spillane were giving out about the wasted possession from kicking long ball into the full forward line. The defender is favourite 7 times out of 10 unless the man passing is under little pressure and very accurate. With the exception of Kerry, the last team to win an All Ireland playing traditional football was in 2001, the game has come a long way since then with even Kerry adapting and changing their style. It's what good teams do.

P.S. I do think that Cavan have a few tidy players coming through and that in 2-3 years time will at least be competitive in Ulster

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 21/05/2012 14:55:00    1177223

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 1666

1177074
first off i wasnt at the match so im only seeing what rte cameras want you to see but on sunday game donegal looked to have evolved alot better
certainly on the counter attack they were kicking the ball alot more then last year and half backs and corner backs getting into good positions so i wouldnt be in the lets slaughter them camp just yet.it certainly looked a step forward from the way they set up against us last year



well said if donegal play like that for the whole year we can't complain. it was enjoyable to watch.

BettystownRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 3353 - 21/05/2012 14:57:31    1177225

The Master:

As opposed to saying 'let's defend and hope we do enough to win the game'? As regards going home with our tails between our legs, yes we did, but 30 other counties had alreay travelled that road before us, so what does that say about everyone else?

@ The Master - ok what game are you talking about now where Donegal said 'let's defend and hope we do enough to win the game?' Was this the match yesterday where they scored 1-16 while defending and hoping that they did enough? Was this why Neil McGee our full back who's (according to a 'pundit') 'All-star last year should have been shared by 13 players' was through on goal and took a point after 15 minutes. Was this why they took their foot off the pedal from a long way off. Some of these points are ridiculous.

This whole thing is getting tiring at this stage... all the ills of the game are being thrust unjustly onto a Donegal because they had the audacity to try something different and nearly beat the All Ireland winning team of 2012. No-one in Donegal will ever argue that semi-final was a good game of football... but it almost got a team of 2010 no-hopers to an All Ireland Final but that does not make us what someone termed us 'The Devil'.

There is an awful lot of hypocrisy, double standards and high-horse-ism going on this site, that is quite frankly coming across as arrogance in the extreme. Who gives someone from Mayo, Cavan, Dublin the right to lecture other teams on what's 'traditional' and how they should play any more than Donegal fans should to another county.

What is wrong and I repeat WRONG with having a good defensive structure. All the best teams in every sport do. Stop being bitter about and find a way past it... come and have a go and beat us... Dublin did eventually last year and not one Donegal fan begrudged them for it. Jim also learned that his extreme defensive tactics on the day didn't work. BUT We had absolutely nothing to be ashamed of...

However this year is 2012 not 2011 so judge us on this season - not on last. Yesterday we were both good defensively and good offensively - we attacked in numbers as well as defended in numbers but people's bitterness cannot see that. In fact they were so effective that the last 20 mins was at challenge match pace. That's not to say that Derry won't beat us... but if they do so and we'll be the first to congratulate them... so please stop all this crying. Youse are like little kids.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 335 - 21/05/2012 15:31:29    1177260

Well said Al

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 21/05/2012 15:46:07    1177278

I was hoping against hope to see this derogatory terminology consigned to the dustbin nearly 10 years after it was first coined, however to see it being used by a fellow Ulster Gael makes it all the more disappointing.

Brend - call it Puke, spew, crap, rubbish, dross, hogwash sh#t, etc etc. its only an adjective but the result is the same. An extremely unattractive brand of football that is doing serious damage to Gaelic football. This is garbage football not gaelic football.

Being a fellow Ulster Gael has nothing to do with it. I say it as I see it and anyone who cant see the harm this excuse for sporting entertainment is doing, they are seriously deluded! I don't know how long you have been following gaelic football but I can well remember when teams played to win, to outscore not to out defend.

I'm sure if you were to ask Frank McGuigan what he thought of the Cavan Donegal game he wouldn't be behind the door in telling you it was pure garbage. That's if he even bothered to watch it!

ballybannongael (Down) - Posts: 547 - 21/05/2012 16:00:46    1177291

Surely the onus is on other team's to come up with a system to defeat Donegal? I don't find it enjoyable to watch but Donegal are well within their rights to play this way. At the end of the day this is how the management feel is the best route to success with this group of players and with an Ulster title and All-Ireland semi under the belt they've been proved right so far. Hopefully we can lock horns again in an Ulster semi and put right the wrongs of last year but the criticism is not only over the top but also quite hypocritical given how other counties play

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 21/05/2012 16:11:14    1177305

And once again

Ballybannon Gael

How did we not play to out-score - we scored 1-16 they scored 1-10... Is 1-16 a score from a team that played to out-defend? What is your real issue here? Explain how we didn't attack enough for you yesterday.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 335 - 21/05/2012 16:15:22    1177309