Guys - forget about who makes the post read and see whether or not it resonates.
Half my family are from the South and for decades I've defended my fellow countrymen from an onslaught of Ulster Unionist bigotry. The depth of this you really would need to be exposed to in order to understand.
I felt deeply ashamed when I heard Irish people given out buckets of gripes about economic migrants and refugees from conflict torn countries. I have always been rightly proud of the Irish empathy for those worse off and our record in famine and aid relief. How can Irish people complain about people coming to Ireland given the abuse we suffered for centuries by intolerance.
There is without a doubt an increasing sense of at best derision towards Northerners and open hostility at worst. In Galway some lad who worked in the tourist Industry declared after drinking the beer I bought the company that all Northerners had an attitude - this was quickly backed up an off-duty barman also in the company. Any attempt to rationalise was hit with brick wall obstinacy and a great deal of frustration for us.
The trendy term now is "Nordy" and sure that's harmless - is it? I view as another "Legitimate" (Since it is articulated on this website and Irish radio) means to disparage and further demonise people actually from the 9 counties of ulster.
I don't view the comments as racist or sectarian as many people have pointed out they're not as McKeever is of the same ethnicity and religion I would assume. They are inflammatory and to those who sledge from an northern perspective and deride people from the 26 counties - you are doing nationalism and your county no favours. i condemn it as roundly as I condemn the GSTQ stuff. I also think McKeever should have been thicker skinned and hit the offender hard and legitimately which he has the ability to do.
As GAA people we should condemn when we see/hear it irrespective of who it is aimed at. As Irish people we have a duty to live up to the lofty ideals of the great Irish people who liberated the 26. For northerners we will always be sensitive to such barbed comments because we live under British rule and as GAA people we don't enjoy the liberties you take for granted.
So well said Ulsterman - I salute you for being one of the few to not bow to the bandwagon jumping sycophants that permeate so many of the posts on here.
For Laois posters - in my experience you have probably less of these guys than any other county and believe this was the actions of an isolated clown (I would bet my house on who it was but....)

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 22/03/2012 14:55:09    1134879

I will take that as a back handed compliment Liam. Look Armagh are no saints nor are Ulster teams when they play anyone as I have testified but this is deeper. My comments are part of wider debate, outside sport, that I believe the South needs to start with itself about it's prejudices and intolerances which as I have found are deeply embedded in many parts of society there. I have family in the South, know it quite well and realise there is a lot of anger and deep unhappiness amongst people there who are being hammered left, right and centre but whose frustrations are being taken out on the wrong people whether they be 'Nordies', black/Asian, travellers, Eastern Europeans etc. The anger of the population is being expressed against easy targets instead of those criminals who have bankrupted the state and this striking out against others has flowed over into the GAA, North/South relations and life in general. In the smaller scheme and limiting the debate to 'on field' banter and winding opponents up Brolly might be right but this is far more than just Laois, McKeever or Armagh; this culture of intolerance and resentment towards 'outsiders' and blaming the wrong people are something the South needs to start debating about instead of ignoring.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9825 - 22/03/2012 14:57:41    1134880

Ulsterman, the party that most northern nationalists voted for is in Government with the most extreme unionist party and is closing schools, cutting the wages of lower paid public servants and about to cut social welfare. So less of the preaching thanks.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 22/03/2012 15:09:33    1134890

great post Tyronetim boy!,
I have noticed a definite increase in racism towards people from africa and eastern europe here in the last few years and Im reminded of the words of Frederick douglass when he talked about the Irish in America"perhaps no class has carried prejudice against colour to a point more dangerous than have the Irishand yet no people have beenmore relentlessly oppressed on account of their race and religion"We are the last people in the world who should be prejudiced against other races..I just think this whole thing has been blown out of all proportion...The Armagh team of 10 years ago would have laughed at the Laois player and gone out and walloped them in the 2nd half.

juniorbsub (Wexford) - Posts: 646 - 22/03/2012 15:15:49    1134897

What a joke that we have Laois doing an investigation and finding that nothing had happened. What was the extent to their investigation, was it asking the player in question did he say anything. Laois have previous with this sort of thing, read Joe Kernan's autobiography and youl see what i mean.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1664 - 22/03/2012 15:27:28    1134911

I myself have had first hand experience of the sort of abuse that McKeever received during the 7 years I lived down in Dublin and its not nice to be on the receiving end of it - regardless of the intention or puropse behind those making the comments. It actually saddened me to think that people who call themselves Irish would attack a fellow Irishman in such a verbal manner and often I asked just exactly how Irish were they if they were happy to have part of their country under the rule of another and insult their fellow countrymen in such a way. Of all the times I did get insulted I just ignored it and put it down to the ignorance of the person bar one time when the guy just wouldn't let it lie and after pushing the wrong button one time to many I did react so I can understand McKeever lashing out at the Laois player.

There does still seem to be a misplaced superiority complex from certain people in the South who I think really do believe they are more Irish than those in the North. Its these type of people who need to go back and have a read of the history of our country and maybe they will then have a different perception though at the same time going by my experiences I would guess they would struggle to know which way round to hold the book!

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/03/2012 15:29:13    1134914

Ulsterman listen can I just say this. I dont resent Ulster. I dont resent ulstermen/women. Be they Catholic/Protestant. I really dont. And neither I suspect do the vast vast majority of "southerners" .......

That programme "The Estate" that was on BBC all spring about the people of Ballysally, did you see it? Working class folk from a fiercely loyalist estate. Rangers jerseys and Murals everywhere you go. But as a whole, they all seemed decent normal nice folk.

I would as soon share a pint with one of them as I would with anyone.

I think yourself and a few others do seem to think we hate ye all up North. We dont! Ye think we are out to get you, we're not.
My favourite ever non Dublin footballer is ....shock horror....an Armagh man!!!! Kieran McGeeney. After him I would also have ...wait for it....a Down man...Greg Blaney!

I think if you were to ask some of the older Northern Posters here they would back me up that I am not and never have been "anti-Ulster". Ask Goodfella, ThomasClarke etc.....

I know this sounds a bit like the old "some of my best friends are......" but its a fact :)

I do think there is an aggressive streak in Ulster football that doesnt necessarily exist in other counties. But that doesnt make me anti-Ulster. Its just an opinion I have formed over the years. I also think there is a streak of arrogance in Kerry football and a streak of general p***yness in Laois football!!! But I am not anti-Kerry or Anti-Laois. They are just personal opinons.

And before anyone starts......I am well aware there is a LOT of misplaced arrogance with some Dubs fans aswell!!! :)

Look Ulsterman, we are not against you, we are not out to get you. Relax, chill out, and stop blaming bankers and lawyers for a Laois Footballer winding Ciaran McKeever up!!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8170 - 22/03/2012 15:33:02    1134918

juniorbsub

At the risk of joining the sycophants great choice and superb quote how shameful it is.
Have you seen the great mural to him on the Falls road in belfast..really worth a view you'll probably see it on-line.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 22/03/2012 15:35:43    1134919

I'm away at the moment and I can't quite believe what I'm reading here. Racism?! Seriously!! Is this not what happens during most games. Opponents mouthing off to each other to try and get a rise? Jason Sherlock in my opinion had every right to cry racism as he was called all sorts by opponents down through the years. But he took it on the chin and got on with it. Aren't the Armagh team well known for "expressing their feelings" on the pitch. Is being called a "free stater" not classed the same? Now while I agree that there is definitely a racist current running thought Ireland (the whole island) towards immigrants particularly those from Nigeria, I do not believe it extends to the people north of the border. I agree with the poster that said Armagh is playing this card to get McKeever off. In my opinion it doesn't matter what he was called, he retaliated and I think this is indicative of the mentality of McKeever at the moment. I also agree with the poster that said the Armagh team of the naughties would have used that goading to push on in a match. It's all been blown out of proportion IMO and posters feelings re politics in the South or North have no place here.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/03/2012 15:37:10    1134922

Jackeen
County: Dublin
Posts: 1707

1134922
I'm away at the moment and I can't quite believe what I'm reading here. Racism?! Seriously!! Is this not what happens during most games. Opponents mouthing off to each other to try and get a rise? Jason Sherlock in my opinion had every right to cry racism as he was called all sorts by opponents down through the years. But he took it on the chin and got on with it. Aren't the Armagh team well known for "expressing their feelings" on the pitch. Is being called a "free stater" not classed the same? Now while I agree that there is definitely a racist current running thought Ireland (the whole island) towards immigrants particularly those from Nigeria, I do not believe it extends to the people north of the border. I agree with the poster that said Armagh is playing this card to get McKeever off. In my opinion it doesn't matter what he was called, he retaliated and I think this is indicative of the mentality of McKeever at the moment. I also agree with the poster that said the Armagh team of the naughties would have used that goading to push on in a match. It's all been blown out of proportion IMO and posters feelings re politics in the South or North have no place here.

The show on TV3 last week would say other wise

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 22/03/2012 15:44:57    1134928

Ya have been on the Falls Tyronetim and seen it,Just read his biography recently too a man ahead of his time..By the way I think the term Nordy is just a figure of speech like jackeen for a dub or culchie for someone like me,I wouldent take too much offence to it!!

juniorbsub (Wexford) - Posts: 646 - 22/03/2012 15:51:49    1134935

Horse,

I notice that you've gone from outright denial that anything happened to now saying that Armagh should just shut up about it. I take this to mean that you now accept that McKeever was subject to the abuse.

I don't share Ulsterman's paranoia about a generalised anti six county bias within the GAA. If he took time to read the thread he'd have seen that the posters condemning the behaviour were from right across the country. The GAA is very important to me because it is the one national organisation where my Irish identity is fully recognised. I have followed my county team all over the country now for several decades and have never experienced anything but genuine friendliness anywhere I have gone. I can't say that I have never heard comments about being from the north but it has, for the most part, been good natured ribbing and has certainly never been of the aggressive and insulting nature experienced by Kieran McKeever, there is a difference.

I admit that I am sensitive to having my nationality questioned because it adds to the injustice that is the existence of the NI statelet, and I admit that my first reaction to hearing about the abuse was anger against Laois GAA in general. This was uncalled for and wrong. Clearly the comments expressed by the particular player are not the common view of the Laois GAA community. I note that the Laois County Board has announced an enquiry and Justin McNulty has not issued a statement backing his player. A number of Laois posters have acknowledged that if true the player should never wear a Laois jersey again.

An official complaint has now been made to GAA HQ and if it is established that the player concerned gave the abuse he will be dealt with by having the appropriate sanction applied as per the rules of the association. I think we should all just leave it at that.

kickpass (Down) - Posts: 208 - 22/03/2012 15:59:07    1134940

Jackeen
"and posters feelings re politics in the South or North have no place here. "

This is a GAA website if I'm not mistaken?

The GAA has as its Basic Aim S1.2
"The Association is a National organisation which has as its basic aim the strenghtening of the National identity in a 32 county Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes"

Everything in its place and appropriate context we are the GAA body, we are Irish, and attempts at divisions from within run contrary to the fundamental aims of the organisation we all claim to love.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 22/03/2012 16:10:54    1134957

Tyronet what divisions though? Name calling on a pitch?!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/03/2012 16:25:17    1134971

Biggest heap of nonsense I've ever heard in my nearly 40 years in the GAA. Armagh are rearing them soft these days that's for sure. There'll be no Sam for Armagh any day soon with such a bunch of easily offended chappies playing ball. Considering some of the names I've been called over the years by Six County teams - if I was from Armagh I would probably have had a breakdown! Toughen up Armagh and get a grip. There's unlikely to be a dafter story in 2012. Sob! Pass me a hanky . . .

FSB (Donegal) - Posts: 1 - 22/03/2012 16:44:40    1134988

We know from this website there are some deep seated divisions. Just someone's county leaves some posters candescent and all logic goes out the window.
I think questioning fellow gaels nationalism is wrong. I think tribalism and lumping people into one homogenous grouping by geograhical address is wrong.

I also think Ciaran should have been able to handle it but that the GAA should take a stand against from wherever it emanates.
I think as many Ulster posters have pointed out there is an increasing tendency to make blanket statements against people particularly from the North.
Celebrate and embrace diversity..glad to see young Dias play for Dublin. Disgusted with the abuse Jason Sherlock had to put up with. But should not be ambivalent towards it we need to condemn for what it is narrow minded ignorance.

Do you now agree nationalism and "Politics" as some posters refer to it has its place in the GAA and therefore this website. It is totally within context of this discussion.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 22/03/2012 16:45:32    1134993

The Laois statement is pretty annoying to me. Could they not have been a bit less confrontational. All they had to say was:

'We have no evidence to suggest that the comment was made. Therefore we cannot say whether or not racial abuse occurred. If abuse of that nature was directed at one of the Armagh players, we do not condone it and genuinely regret that it happened in our stadium. Whilst this board should not be held to account for the actions of unknown individuals, we will do all in our power to ensure that such actions do not result in unacceptable insult to any of our fellow Gaels.'

Would that not have difused the situation? Instead we get something that seems abrasive and confrontational.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 22/03/2012 16:46:20    1134994

kickpass
County: Down
Posts: 152

1134940
Horse,

I notice that you've gone from outright denial that anything happened to now saying that Armagh should just shut up about it. I take this to mean that you now accept that McKeever was subject to the abuse.

Certainly not. I have no proof that anything at all was said. The Laois player in question is innocent until proven guilty, which he never will be as these accusations are groundless griping from sore losers.
My take on this is that Armagh are worried about the suspensions to McKeever and Grimley so have invented this "poor me" nonsense to get some sympathy.

Below is quoted from the mainpage;

Laois PRO Paschal McEvoy told the Irish News that "absolutely no evidence" was found to support the Armagh county board's claim that McKeever had been called a "British b******".

McEvoy said: "We have absolutely no evidence to suggest any of our players said anything of that nature.

"It is a serious accusation but we've no proof that anyone said it. Until somebody comes along with proof we're not accepting what was said (by the Armagh county board). There were several officials that were in there (the tunnel).

"It was very vague of the Armagh county board in terms of who said it. Maybe if they were a bit more specific in their comments we might be able to address it. But we have no evidence whatsoever that anyone said this."

You can see that the Armagh boys dont even have any specific insult, well sorry lads, bleating on that one of the Laois boys doesnt like northerners doesnt cut it in the real world. Like a bunch of schoolgirls whingin that they were bullied on facebook. laughable in the extreme.

..........................................................

A number of Laois posters have acknowledged that if true the player should never wear a Laois jersey again.

Well if proven there should be punishment, say a game suspension, but a lifetime ban for a loyal servant to the county is extremely harsh. Are we going to hand out lifetime bans to everyone who slags off an opponent?? Get real here. McKeever kicked someone - if you did that on the street youd be up on charges. He gets 2 games, and thats cos he threw his toys out of the pram.

Sure over the lifetime of just this one thread how many comments along the lines of Laois are the Queens County, Laoismen pi**ed on the gunpowder in 1798, English is our mother tongue (as if it wasnt for the rest of the country!), Portlaoise is Maryborough have we had to take?? Read back and youll see them all there! Big deal. We dont make a big drama out of it.

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 22/03/2012 16:51:26    1134998

Culchie
County: Cork
Posts: 580

1134994
The Laois statement is pretty annoying to me. Could they not have been a bit less confrontational. All they had to say was:

'We have no evidence to suggest that the comment was made. Therefore we cannot say whether or not racial abuse occurred. If abuse of that nature was directed at one of the Armagh players, we do not condone it and genuinely regret that it happened in our stadium. Whilst this board should not be held to account for the actions of unknown individuals, we will do all in our power to ensure that such actions do not result in unacceptable insult to any of our fellow Gaels.'

Would that not have difused the situation? Instead we get something that seems abrasive and confrontational.

Yeah we should just take slanderous lies lying down.

No way.

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 22/03/2012 16:53:29    1135000

It seems that after nearly 20 years of 'peace', some Armagh folk have forgotten what real sectarianism is, and the damage it causes. I don't believe that Laois or the South in general should be regarded as some cold house for us Northerners,this guys choice of words were at worst unfortunate and as many have alluded to, McKeevers best course of action would have been to do his talking on the pitch. Also to play the race card in all Irish context is deplorable in my view, what were the Armagh county board thinking of, thats if they were thinking at all.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 22/03/2012 17:05:29    1135008