Kelf what are you on about peter moore played for ballinabrackey fact! Ballinabrackey is in county meath fact! Are you saying chris ocoonor of same club on meath team now is from offaly. Believe me it is in meath and in parts of it are actually a lot closer to westmeath. Kinnegad closest town to it. And as for training outside county that is perfectly normal. Coyle trained monaghan kerrigan westmeath. Our current manager is from monaghan oh yes and yours is a armagh man. Shock. If anyone wants to know about ballinabrackey from carlow ask your current manager he started his training career there

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 09/02/2012 10:23:08    1108319

In fairness I don't think Seanie Johnston left the Cavan panel and decided to himself,hmm I think I would like to play for Kildare.. McGeeney clearly is seeking players out,and it would appear,Shane Supple gave the game away.This kind of thing should be banned end of..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 09/02/2012 11:12:03    1108348

By the way fair play to the Meath scouts for knowing the talent Colm O'Rourke had at the age of three!!! That's the only way how that could be similar to this story...

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 09/02/2012 11:14:27    1108350

ziggy32001


How did the land commision know he would turn out like that?

Stroke of genius on their part....

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6348 - 09/02/2012 13:56:12    1108497

ziggy32001
County: Meath
Posts: 1051

1108348 In fairness I don't think Seanie Johnston left the Cavan panel and decided to himself,hmm I think I would like to play for Kildare.. McGeeney clearly is seeking players out,and it would appear,Shane Supple gave the game away.This kind of thing should be banned end of..


I assume you have a source/link to back up your post above?

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 09/02/2012 14:01:35    1108503

sedico

Back up what exactly?

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 09/02/2012 14:19:05    1108521

Your post.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 09/02/2012 14:35:42    1108534

sedico, in fairness ziggy is probably right. Johnston seems to have been backing up the fact he is living in Kildare by saying a few times that if he was playing down here then he would have to live here but would you not agree this seems to be putting the cart in front of the horse a bit? He'll probably get his transfer but the spirit of the rule is that you are a resident in that county and then you can make decision to transfer not the other way around. At best we have tried to bend the rules in the Johnston case. In the Supple case it appears we have attempted to ignore them completely.

There's a few rumours going around saying that Supple was only asked to help out with goalkeeping coaching due to his soccer background and all sorts of stories about Johnston but no-one has any proof either way. Someone needs to ask McGeeney and/or John McMahon what the hell is going on here because right now it paints a pretty bad picture both for people in and around Kildare GAA and for people looking in from outside.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 09/02/2012 14:36:41    1108535

Nothing new really you did the same thing back in 98 with Karl o Dwyer.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 09/02/2012 14:44:50    1108543

Regarding my earlier post, I respect those replies that it seems wrong that a player from a county should simply choose to play for another, so perhaps my point of Padden's relocation from Mayo to Armagh was not as well placed as I thought, (in a twisted irony of this thread, a similar point can be made about Larry Tompkins playing football in Kildare and end up playing for Cork?)

But I suppose it's a different story when you're talking about relocations. But where is the line drawn? If a player can be selected from another county just because the player relocates, what's to stop a player who can simply commute?

It certainly doesn't stop managers, does it - look at 2011 alone, a Clare man managing Waterford hurlers, another Clare man managing Dublin hurlers, a Tipp man managing Wexford hurlers, a Waterford man managing Wexford footballers, a Monaghan man managing Meath footballers, An Armagh man managing Kildare Footballers? If they don't create these divides for management, why should it be exist for players?

If the GAA doesn't have strict guidelines in the handbook, then the argument about a player being ruled as ineligible for another county seems utterly redundant by comparison.

Does anyone know if the GAA handbook has anything in it regarding this issue? I remain somewhat divided on it, personally

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 09/02/2012 15:00:22    1108553

Karl O'Dwyer still works, lives and has a family in Kildare. If Seanie Johnston is still living in Kildare 10 years after he finishes up playing with us I'll take back everything I've said in the above posts.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 09/02/2012 15:01:07    1108554

doublehop
County: Kildare
Posts: 1571

1108535 sedico, in fairness ziggy is probably right. Johnston seems to have been backing up the fact he is living in Kildare by saying a few times that if he was playing down here then he would have to live here but would you not agree this seems to be putting the cart in front of the horse a bit? He'll probably get his transfer but the spirit of the rule is that you are a resident in that county and then you can make decision to transfer not the other way around. At best we have tried to bend the rules in the Johnston case. In the Supple case it appears we have attempted to ignore them completely.

There's a few rumours going around saying that Supple was only asked to help out with goalkeeping coaching due to his soccer background and all sorts of stories about Johnston but no-one has any proof either way. Someone needs to ask McGeeney and/or John McMahon what the hell is going on here because right now it paints a pretty bad picture both for people in and around Kildare GAA and for people looking in from outside.



The key word in your post is 'probably'. I haven't a notion of the real truth with what happend with either Johnston or Supple no more than anyone else on this thread. People seem to have taken Supples' word for it while at the same time calling Johnston a liar.

To be honest I don't care what other counties think of Kildare. I'd rather be succesful than liked.

Ok I know its a long time ago but is the Tompkins 'transfer' not similar to Johnstons? Why did he pick an obscure club from West Cork to play with? Afterwards he was lauded as one of the best players of that particular era. Why was that considered more acceptable?

There are a few posters on here who are determined to keep this thread going as long as possible for reasons other than caring about the future of the GAA. I'm wondering are they aware of whats happening at club level in the four corners of the country? Its an awful pity they don't see whats happening a small club like my own having to wind up its juvenile section owing to losing our better players to a bigger club in the community. Its only a big deal for some when it involves one of their rivals.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 09/02/2012 15:12:12    1108568

Doublehop I think you are being very harsh on Kildare. There are other transfers that are going on and ones that have happened over the past few years and no one has batted an eyelash at them. They are happening the whole time. In my opinion Johnston and Kildare are receiving unjust criticism and people are quick to judge and make an opinion when they dont know the true facts of the whole story and until we do find out the full story then and only then can we give a balanced view. I cannot wait until this transfer goes through people will then have to be accept it and let Kildare get on with it.

lilywhitemagic (Kildare) - Posts: 1693 - 09/02/2012 15:13:16    1108570

I find Johnston's quote that training in Kildare means it would be impossible for him to live in Cavan strange. But didn't he want to stay with Cavan Gaels until he was told he'd have to play with a Kildare club? If he does live in Kildare now as he assures everyone, how would he have managed to train in Cavan seeing as he says it's impossible for him to do it the other way around?

I find it encouraging that a lot of Kildare fans (both here and ones I know) are not comfortable with this. Though I find it funny that certain Kildare fans try (and fail) to discredit other counties to mask their own wrongdoings.

Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1466 - 09/02/2012 15:20:06    1108579

lilywhitemagic

Thats what I have been saying.
If there was clarity on it from Kildare or the players, then people would know what exactly is happening.

Sedico.
How can you claim Tompkins just picked an odscure club on Cork just to play for them? He genuinley lived and worked there. He is STILL living and running his own pub in cork. Seanie Johnson is still working in Cavan. They are totally different situations.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6348 - 09/02/2012 15:44:02    1108592

I wouldn't worry too much about what a couple of dozen posters say about Kildare in cyberspace. I doubt very much that there is a county in Ireland where the rules haven't been bent to accommodate players moving from junior to senior clubs etc. and I'm sure that an instance can be found for virtually every inter-county team where moves have been accommodated. I know that Dublin and Kerry did stick to their guns in blocking a couple of high profile cases in the last couple of years but I don't think there is any county completely clean on this one.

I think, Seanie Johnston should be made to jump a few hurdles to stop a precedent being set but if he is so eager to keep playing inter-county football that he is genuinely prepared to move so far from where he works I'd have some sympathy for him. Although as said above its not how the rules were intended and I suspect that the same amount of effort would have got him back on the Cavan panel.

The real questions I have is who will he displace from the panel? and are there genuinely no good forwards knocking on the door?

kickpass (Down) - Posts: 208 - 09/02/2012 15:53:05    1108599

Sedico

As per your previous quote,

You claim certain people are determined to keep this thread going?
Who are you referring to by that?
Because incase you didnt notice, this thread was gone off the main screen and out of domain until it was re-surfaced by a KILDARE poster.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6348 - 09/02/2012 15:57:11    1108601

Well in fairness sedico I restarted this thread after it had been dormant for two days because I read Ewan MacKenna's column and it really struck a chord with me. And my motive in talking about it so openly is definitely because I see it as being bad for the GAA both purely from a Kildare point of view and as a whole. I'm not sure if you're read it but I put the link up in a previous post. One bit that should interest you is in relation to the Shay Fahy and Larry Tompkins transfers:

"...leaving aside who was to blame back in the 1980s, Kildare people should therefore know better and know exactly what it's like to lose talent a county has harvested to a stronger side with far greater resources. They should know the bitterness it causes and they should know that in this case, they should not do unto others what was once done unto them."

And there's no point going on about club transfers or what other counties did or didn't do. Actively pursuing these players is fairly unprecedented and arguing about two wrongs making a right doesn't make it okay either. The group of players we have now are very admirable. They take what they've got and they play to the maximum of their potential. Yes we've had heartbraking losses but they've left everything they've got out on the field and that's something to be proud of. Instead of seeing if players coming back from injury this year or if younger players coming through could improve us what have we done?

it would appear McGeeney has decided this is what he thinks is the best way and frankly the whole thing stinks and threatens to invalidate everything good he has done before. Maybe he's not more worried about his managerial CV than he is about the game or the current players that look up to him but a move like this has more than a touch of the glory-hunter about it.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 09/02/2012 15:57:30    1108602

does anybody know or have any idea,how long does it take for the cccc to make a decision on this i assume johnstons papers are long gone from cavan county board to croke park?
the sooner the better a decision is made kildare have games coming up and the whole thing is slighty overtaking..
i dont know i feel if it is a yes people will just have to accept it and get on with it and it will be old news kildare can concentrate on what is important
if it is a no...seanie seems to me determined to play inter county for kildare therefore will appeal (if he can) and the debating will be dragged out for longer...hurry up cccc!!

lilywhitemagic (Kildare) - Posts: 1693 - 09/02/2012 16:51:19    1108657

doublehop
County: Kildare
Posts: 1573

1108602 Well in fairness sedico I restarted this thread after it had been dormant for two days because I read Ewan MacKenna's column and it really struck a chord with me. And my motive in talking about it so openly is definitely because I see it as being bad for the GAA both purely from a Kildare point of view and as a whole. I'm not sure if you're read it but I put the link up in a previous post. One bit that should interest you is in relation to the Shay Fahy and Larry Tompkins transfers:

"...leaving aside who was to blame back in the 1980s, Kildare people should therefore know better and know exactly what it's like to lose talent a county has harvested to a stronger side with far greater resources. They should know the bitterness it causes and they should know that in this case, they should not do unto others what was once done unto them."

And there's no point going on about club transfers or what other counties did or didn't do. Actively pursuing these players is fairly unprecedented and arguing about two wrongs making a right doesn't make it okay either. The group of players we have now are very admirable. They take what they've got and they play to the maximum of their potential. Yes we've had heartbraking losses but they've left everything they've got out on the field and that's something to be proud of. Instead of seeing if players coming back from injury this year or if younger players coming through could improve us what have we done?

it would appear McGeeney has decided this is what he thinks is the best way and frankly the whole thing stinks and threatens to invalidate everything good he has done before. Maybe he's not more worried about his managerial CV than he is about the game or the current players that look up to him but a move like this has more than a touch of the glory-hunter about it.

I've read that article and imo it's not a very balanced one.

You write I shouldn't go on about club transfers. Why not? Are you suggesting that we accept these transfers at club level but question them at inter-county level. I couldn't disagree with you more. It happens in every county and its nothing new. Suddenly there is mayhem. I'm annoyed simply becuase certain posters are feigning concern that this might lead to the demise of the GAA. These same people were nowhere to be seen when clubs in Dublin were openly recruiting players form other counties.

You seem to fairly certain that it was McGeeney who contacted both Supple and Johnston. And I'd argue that every manager has a touch of a glory-hunter about themselves.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 09/02/2012 17:18:06    1108670