Ormondbannerman using the provinces as a barometer of success is misleading.
There are a lot of clubs struggling big time to field teams at adult level.
A lot of AIL clubs in trouble as well.
Blackrock RFC are trying to get payments to players and coaches done away with as a lot of the traditional clubs are broke.

Coylers Elbow (Meath) - Posts: 1075 - 08/01/2012 18:27:05    1090406

08/01/2012 18:27:05
Coylers Elbow
County: Meath
Posts: 784

1090406 Ormondbannerman using the provinces as a barometer of success is misleading.
There are a lot of clubs struggling big time to field teams at adult level.
A lot of AIL clubs in trouble as well.
Blackrock RFC are trying to get payments to players and coaches done away with as a lot of the traditional clubs are broke.

Its not that misleading as the casual fans are now treating the provinces as their "club" like ive friends who played a bit of rugby when they were younger but now go to every munster home game and some away games and only go to the odd nenagh rugby game when in the past theyd have went to every nenagh game and the odd munster game
Yes some clubs are struggling to field, due to the recession, emigration etc but they are factors that are affecting the GAA as well. Some AIL clubs are struggling but most are not. In some clubs numbers are up,

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/01/2012 18:36:53    1090415

As far as the majority of rugby 'fans' in this country are concerned, there are 3 rugby clubs on the island of Ireland (3 and a half at a push).
The schools produce the players who then go into provincial academies so the actual clubs are redundant.
Irish teams in the Heineken Cup have an unfair advantage at the moment.
They can field 2nd string teams in the Magners league and focus on Europe.
The French and English teams have hugely competitive domestic leagues and do not have the same capacity to rest players.
If this ever changes then the Irish teams are in trouble.
Look at Munsters support now compared to what it was.
The bandwagon demands success.

Coylers Elbow (Meath) - Posts: 1075 - 08/01/2012 18:53:50    1090420

Think because of ireland, leinster and munster doing well and its availability on television alot more people are watching and enjoying it ,at the expense of watching soccer on tv because of all the diving and moaning. but i still dont know anyone who has kids who actually have taken up the sport near me , it seems to me only more adults watching it ,im northside dublin so cant speak for anywhere else.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 08/01/2012 19:01:27    1090425

08/01/2012 18:53:50
Coylers Elbow
County: Meath
Posts: 786

1090420 As far as the majority of rugby 'fans' in this country are concerned, there are 3 rugby clubs on the island of Ireland (3 and a half at a push).
The schools produce the players who then go into provincial academies so the actual clubs are redundant.
Irish teams in the Heineken Cup have an unfair advantage at the moment.
They can field 2nd string teams in the Magners league and focus on Europe.
The French and English teams have hugely competitive domestic leagues and do not have the same capacity to rest players.
If this ever changes then the Irish teams are in trouble.
Look at Munsters support now compared to what it was.
The bandwagon demands success.

How are they redundant? thats incredibly unfair on everyone one of the thousands of amatuer rugby players like myself who train 2 or 3 times a week for 7 or 8 months of the year. Without the clubs there would be no munster, leinster...
Irish teams do have an advantage in that there is no relegation in the pro 12 so they can concentrate on europe but its not like they field 2nd string teams that much, rugby is a heavy intensity game and unless someone is a physical freak playing 25 games is a huge amount of games to play in a season.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/01/2012 19:10:05    1090437

My local town is considered a hotbed of soccer for the past 30 years. Talking to people in the town, GAA plays second fiddle. In the last couple of years the club is struggling big time. While the GAA isnn't great it is still well ahead of the soccer club.

downtheroad (Laois) - Posts: 21 - 08/01/2012 19:24:21    1090446

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 630

1090378 08/01/2012 17:42:12
lochgarmanabu
County: Wexford
Posts: 715

1090365 My understanding is that there are more players playing ladies gaelic footbal than all the males (and females) playing rugby. I reckon that answers the question.

Proof?????
about 160'000 registered rugby players in ireland in last available figures

I find this figure hard to believe. Proof please.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6199 - 08/01/2012 19:36:37    1090454

Same as that Ath Cliath. Rugby does not exist in working class Dublin. And same in lots of strong GAA towns around the country. And professionalism definitely has harmed the clubs. No-one watches club rugby anymore. Be lucky to get 5/600 for finals. Once the 'golden generation' retires that will be it.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 08/01/2012 19:43:55    1090460

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 630

1090437 08/01/2012 18:53:50
Coylers Elbow
County: Meath
Posts: 786

1090420 As far as the majority of rugby 'fans' in this country are concerned, there are 3 rugby clubs on the island of Ireland (3 and a half at a push).
The schools produce the players who then go into provincial academies so the actual clubs are redundant.
Irish teams in the Heineken Cup have an unfair advantage at the moment.
They can field 2nd string teams in the Magners league and focus on Europe.
The French and English teams have hugely competitive domestic leagues and do not have the same capacity to rest players.
If this ever changes then the Irish teams are in trouble.
Look at Munsters support now compared to what it was.
The bandwagon demands success.

How are they redundant? thats incredibly unfair on everyone one of the thousands of amatuer rugby players like myself who train 2 or 3 times a week for 7 or 8 months of the year. Without the clubs there would be no munster, leinster...

Irish teams do have an advantage in that there is no relegation in the pro 12 so they can concentrate on europe but its not like they field 2nd string teams that much, rugby is a heavy intensity game and unless someone is a physical freak playing 25 games is a huge amount of games to play in a season.

Irish teams have a massive advantage in Europe. Munster, Leinster and Ulster engineer qualification for The Heinekin Cup every year by actively discriminating against Connacht. Connacht receive 2.2 million euro annually from The IRFU. The other three receive 3.3 million euro each. The top three Irish provinces in the Pro12 have qualified as of right for Th Heineken Cup. Leinster and Munster have been exceptional. Ulsters lack of achievement is scandalous. They have not won a knockout game in The Heineken Cup since 1999. They have only qualified once for the knockout stages since 1999. An absolute joke They have the biggest comfort zone in Irish sport and it shows.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6199 - 08/01/2012 19:49:32    1090468

08/01/2012 19:36:37
Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 1871

1090454 ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 630

1090378 08/01/2012 17:42:12
lochgarmanabu
County: Wexford
Posts: 715

1090365 My understanding is that there are more players playing ladies gaelic footbal than all the males (and females) playing rugby. I reckon that answers the question.

Proof?????
about 160'000 registered rugby players in ireland in last available figures

I find this figure hard to believe. Proof please.

IRFU annual reports, check IRFU website the figure covers all men, woman and kids who play http://www.irishrugby.ie/irfu/about/annual_reports.php

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/01/2012 20:02:33    1090476

Every now and then this topic comes up and we get numbers put out which are dubious and when you look closer at the them they include all manner of "participation" numbers.
Soccer is by far the most popular but figures do include those playing indoor 5/7 a side casual games with no club affliation. Basketball is probably the most popular female sport but it includes somethign like 60,000 who play it in secondary schools but are not affliated to clubs. With rugby particiaption where the element of complusary participation in first year in most fee paying schools bloat rugby participation figures also the IRFU figures typically incude the entire Island, the ESRI reports excludes these.

The only figures that matter re the esri ones:
http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/BKMNEXT186/BKMNEXT186.pdf

Playing by total percentage 2009
Soccer 5.6
Gaelic Football 2.6
Hurling 1.4
Rugby 0.9

By Gender Males:
Soccer: 10.7
Gaelic football: 4.0
Hurling: 2.3
Rugby: 1.7

By Gender Females:
Gaelic Football: 1.2
Basketball: 1.3
Camogie: 0.8

Note the above figures are for Irish Republic they do not include NI, where Gaelic Football is by a long mile the most popular sport with both males and females, soccer and basketball compete for second place and rugby is down there with camogie.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4968 - 08/01/2012 20:08:53    1090479

08/01/2012 19:49:32
Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 1872

1090468 ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 630

1090437 08/01/2012 18:53:50
Coylers Elbow
County: Meath
Posts: 786

1090420 As far as the majority of rugby 'fans' in this country are concerned, there are 3 rugby clubs on the island of Ireland (3 and a half at a push).
The schools produce the players who then go into provincial academies so the actual clubs are redundant.
Irish teams in the Heineken Cup have an unfair advantage at the moment.
They can field 2nd string teams in the Magners league and focus on Europe.
The French and English teams have hugely competitive domestic leagues and do not have the same capacity to rest players.
If this ever changes then the Irish teams are in trouble.
Look at Munsters support now compared to what it was.
The bandwagon demands success.

How are they redundant? thats incredibly unfair on everyone one of the thousands of amatuer rugby players like myself who train 2 or 3 times a week for 7 or 8 months of the year. Without the clubs there would be no munster, leinster...

Irish teams do have an advantage in that there is no relegation in the pro 12 so they can concentrate on europe but its not like they field 2nd string teams that much, rugby is a heavy intensity game and unless someone is a physical freak playing 25 games is a huge amount of games to play in a season.

Irish teams have a massive advantage in Europe. Munster, Leinster and Ulster engineer qualification for The Heinekin Cup every year by actively discriminating against Connacht. Connacht receive 2.2 million euro annually from The IRFU. The other three receive 3.3 million euro each. The top three Irish provinces in the Pro12 have qualified as of right for Th Heineken Cup. Leinster and Munster have been exceptional. Ulsters lack of achievement is scandalous. They have not won a knockout game in The Heineken Cup since 1999. They have only qualified once for the knockout stages since 1999. An absolute joke They have the biggest comfort zone in Irish sport and it shows.

Thye have had that advantage and it has helped but connacht are getting more funding from IRFU thesedays and their u/age system is doing very well and is better than munsters at the moment. connacht won the u20 interpro title for 1st time back in september and many of their young stars are getting a lot of work put into them by academy staff etc and they will do well.
Ulster have underachieved but there is still quite a bit of northern influence in the IRFU that will give ulster resources etc that they prob dont deserve

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/01/2012 20:11:12    1090481

The GAA will suffer in the long run if they don't sort the structures of their main competitions. Rugby have the 6 nations well established and the H Cup is a great competition. I find it's groups stages more interesting that the Champions League. The rugby third competition in these parts, the Pro 12, has a decent structure. Players don't always have their top players available but that generally accepted due to international commitments and the games have to go on.

The All-Ireland championship structure is always open to debate and opinion for change. Not a good starting point. The GAA need more exposure that for the summer months. They could gain that by making the league more competitive but don't seem to have the will to do so. An easy change would be to use the league placings for seedings when it comes to the All-Ireland qualifiers. Manager could no longer dismiss the league for being the league as they'd be potentially setting themselves up for a harder task in the qualifiers. The national leagues and the GAA need to make a change along those lines. Failure to do so will only see rival sporting competitions grow in status.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9805 - 09/01/2012 12:29:24    1090658

about 160'000 registered rugby players in ireland . the figure covers all men, woman and kids who play

Camogie & Ladies Football (apprx 100,000) probably have as many and then add the GAA. Gaelic games still a long way ahead.

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 09/01/2012 21:19:53    1091047

09/01/2012 21:19:53
KELF
County: Kildare
Posts: 11

1091047 about 160'000 registered rugby players in ireland . the figure covers all men, woman and kids who play

Camogie & Ladies Football (apprx 100,000) probably have as many and then add the GAA. Gaelic games still a long way ahead.

rugby is improving and increasing in popularity year on year, it may never be in every parish like the GAA but every area will have a clb so anyone who wants to play will have a club close by where they will be able to play

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 09/01/2012 21:43:54    1091071

Agree totally with Coylers Elbow although I might quibble with the number of teams There are really only 2.5 teams with Connacht as a feeder/development academy for the main 2. It is also clear they have a huge advantage over English and French clubs who have a very competitve domestic league and for many French and English clubs the Heineken is just a secondary competition.

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 09/01/2012 21:45:16    1091073

Ryle Nugent must be disgusted with this...........

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=160312

Cute_Kerry_Hoor (Kerry) - Posts: 2518 - 13/01/2012 17:02:07    1093229

How did Nugent get his job anyway?He is a rugby man and Ive never really known him to have much affection for the Gaa.Rtes head of sport should preferably come from a neutral sporting background.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 13/01/2012 17:38:37    1093252

Well that tells its own story!! What do you make of that Clondalkind Dub? It appears that gealic are far ahead of other sports in Ireland.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 13/01/2012 17:56:15    1093262

Nugent a Blacrock boy would seem to be a benificary of the rugby influence/climate in RTE

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 13/01/2012 21:57:09    1093462