04/01/2012 17:25:01
BettystownRoyal
County: Meath
Posts: 1575

1088617 have to say i agree with hill16no1man, if you were a tourist and you came to ireland/dublin and picked up the irish times and read the sports section depending on the time of the year you might not even realize gaelic games exist. there was not one edition of the paper this year that featured no rugby news but i have seen it without GAA news. they should be ashamed the paper is run by west brits who only really support english soccer and rugby.

i don't like soccer at all but they should be giving more of the pages for the premier league for the airtricity league and far more space for football and hurling our 2 national sports. sick of seeing jerry tormleys head on the front page of the irish times especially during the summer.

Why should the irish times pay more attention to the airtricity when brings in so little advertising money in for the paper in comparison to the premiership.
Nothing wrong with links to thornleys articles on the front page, i agree its quite stupid seeing it there in summer time but considering he is the premier rugby journalist in the country, they will promote him a lot
No need for the west brit talk though the paper was initially a protestant paper and therefore concentrated on rugby much more than other newspapers.
Soccer gets more publicity than i like in irish papers but they obviously have so much in the papers as there is a demand for it

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/01/2012 18:03:48    1088643

You should know where I am getting that from Clondalkin Dublin lad. Obviously, because you come on to this GAA site, you are a Dublin GAA fan. Have you been going to the Dublin games this last ten years? If you have you would know that Dublin games have been regularly filled - even a league game against Tír Eoghain. Usually about three quarters of those fans have been Dublin fans - two thirds at very least. The Stadium holds over 80,000. You do the maths.

Regarding international soccer matches the Aviva has yet to be filled for a soccer match as far as I know. What does the Aviva hold? 55,000 (over 25,000 less than Croke Park)? Most of the soccer matches played there have had less than 30,000 present. I think that proves my point. Have a wee think about it.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 05/01/2012 12:22:19    1088934

I actually went to see Old Belevdere and Clontarf in the All-Ireland Semi-Final of the AIL this year. Two Dublin clubs ......and the attendence....less than a 1000 people, well less.

Rest my case.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 05/01/2012 13:12:31    1088984

I'm going twenty years culann, the bandwagon started around 02/03 when the economy was flying lots more birds started going and a load of soccer boys from all over where all going more than ever. We had two sell out games this year and to say Donegal only had 20,000 supporters is an insult to them ,cause as far as I could see they had more support than us on the day. Against Kildare n Tyrone there was only around 60,000 so you reckon they brought no support?? Ireland is getting low gates cause are group was full of teams that we have no interest in watching, put England or Spain in there and see what happens. Ail rugby?? Are you kidding me it's all about Leinster and the Heineken cup, go to a Dublin club game and you would be lucky to get twenty at it and only the championship final gets a good gate. To me Dublin is a soccer county.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 05/01/2012 13:38:16    1089003

05/01/2012 13:12:31
witnof
County: Dublin
Posts: 251

1088984 I actually went to see Old Belevdere and Clontarf in the All-Ireland Semi-Final of the AIL this year. Two Dublin clubs ......and the attendence....less than a 1000 people, well less.

Rest my case.

An attendance most club gaa games is about the same as. In some areas of the country rugby is very popular and in others it is impoving. The interest that many people have in the provinces willl gradually fall down to the local clubs game and attendances will improve at games like the one you mentioned

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 05/01/2012 13:39:04    1089004

Wipe the brown from your mouth Clondalkin Dub. How often do Spain and England play soccer Clondalkin Dub - once every 10 years? English soccer in my opinion is the most supported sport in Ireland. But this topic is about sport in Ireland not in England. Soccer in Ireland is barely supported in Ireland. Thats a fact. We are talking about Irish international soccer matches (who represent 26 counties) not getting anywhere near the crowd Dublin (one county) get. To me that is clear. You tell me what you feel is the average attendance of Dubs for championship games. I think you will find that it wouldnt be far off filling the Aviva something soccer Dubs dont seem to be capable of doing.

If you dont agree with me dont just say you dont agree prove Irish soccer is more supported if you think it is.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 05/01/2012 14:01:39    1089021

Culann you Just told me Dublin had 60,000 in croker this year which is impossible so you wipe the brown from your mouth. I'm saying more people in Dublin have more of an interest in soccer than gaa. Whether that's playing soccer watching loi soccer premiership soccer or international soccer. My point about the crowds at landsdowne is, in these hard times no one wants to go and watch Ireland v Armenia or Slovenia or even Russia so that's why gates are down. Culann 90 per cent of loi players are from Dublin 90 per cent of Irish players playing in England are from Dublin 90 per cent of the Ireland team are dubs , so your telling me that Dublin is a gaa county yet we can only win Sam every 16 years haven't won a minor since 84 and have only won 2 under21's in the last 30 years???? With our population that is shocking and embarrassing. I hate this debate cause I have to say bad things about my county to get my point across. Listen it's my opinion and nothing will change that.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 05/01/2012 15:28:54    1089086

Proviancial Rugby is certainly very popular as a spectacle , however I don't see it at Club level. The GAA is still the largest sporting organisation in the country by participation. Soccer in Dublin is probably the most watched on TV in terms of the premiereship but the domestic league has suffered as a result. Until Setanta came along you couldnt even see most League of Ireland matches on TV.
Rugby is certainly enjoying a resurgence in the capital due to leinsters sucess in the Heinekin cup and sucesses by the Irish national team. However I suspect it will not endure long past the sucess of the team. The biggest difference between GAA and Soccer/Rugby support is that GAA support is about where your from not which is the most sucessful. The IRFU have been very savvy creating a buzz and an appitite for thier game. This has been helped by the fact that players have had media training and always put forward a postive image of their game on TV in interviews.
I think as a spectical both football and hurling are far superior to soccer but the GAA need to take a leaf out of the IRFUs book and get media Savvy. They have a fantastic product but they are not reaching new markets.

spmccann (Dublin) - Posts: 209 - 05/01/2012 15:31:32    1089091

Ormond you say that the interest people have in the provinces (which could well go into decline once this golden area comes to an end,at least for leinster fans) will trickle down to club games?Not necessarily.The growth of popularity in soccer in this country over the last 30 years (which as i have said before has penetrated traditional Gaa areas to a far greater extent than rugby) hasnt seen any great boost in LOI attendances, (although I am open to correction on that).
I have heard more then once on this forum (I think you said it too) that the rise of provincial rugby in Ireland has actually damaged attendances at club games.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 05/01/2012 15:34:29    1089093

Also Ormond,witnof was talking about an all ireland semi final between Belvedere and clontarf,with an attendance of 1000. If an all Ireland club semi final attracted only 1000 punters there would be crisis talks at croke park.As well as this you cant compare rugby clubs to gaa clubs.there are far more gaa clubs in Dublin than rugby clubs, so a gaa clubs catchment area/support base would be far smaller than a rugby teams.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 05/01/2012 15:38:41    1089099

05/01/2012 15:31:32
spmccann
County: Dublin
Posts: 74

1089091 Proviancial Rugby is certainly very popular as a spectacle , however I don't see it at Club level. The GAA is still the largest sporting organisation in the country by participation. Soccer in Dublin is probably the most watched on TV in terms of the premiereship but the domestic league has suffered as a result. Until Setanta came along you couldnt even see most League of Ireland matches on TV.
Rugby is certainly enjoying a resurgence in the capital due to leinsters sucess in the Heinekin cup and sucesses by the Irish national team. However I suspect it will not endure long past the sucess of the team. The biggest difference between GAA and Soccer/Rugby support is that GAA support is about where your from not which is the most sucessful. The IRFU have been very savvy creating a buzz and an appitite for thier game. This has been helped by the fact that players have had media training and always put forward a postive image of their game on TV in interviews.
I think as a spectical both football and hurling are far superior to soccer but the GAA need to take a leaf out of the IRFUs book and get media Savvy. They have a fantastic product but they are not reaching new markets

Rugby is also about where you come from to a large degree, even in dublin where you have several clubs a couple of hundred of metres apart like in the donnybrook area it is where you come from like old wesley to a degree is former wesley college students and many protestants play there. Bective Rangers has a lot of members who are not originally from dublin and has members originally from all over the country and old belvedere, former beledere college students and the ailesbury road areas of the city.
Rugby has always been strong in some areas but following leinster and irelands success the past few years it is reaching areas where it had never been popular before
Go to any club rugby game in limerick, senior or junior or tipperary and you will see how strong rugby is

Any pro sportsperson in any sport will have got some media training as its a mandatory part of their job to do newspaper, tv interviews etc- a reason why the aussies found cluxton not speaking to the media for the international rules so wierd

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 05/01/2012 15:42:38    1089102

Well Ormond Limerick has always been rugby country.I wouldnt use that as an example as rugby has always been strong there.As for Tipperary Id say hurling people are far more worried about gaelic football taking kids away than rugby.
Tony Ward wrote in an article recently that Irish games are penetrating areas of dublin that they have never penetrated before,especially hurling,the same goes for soccer (athenry all ireland hurling champions 2000, are one of the best soccer clubs in Galway) so just because rugby is expanding its player base dosent mean other sports arent.
As for rugby bring where you come from,all i will say is I have never identified myself as a "Connachtman",and looking at the connacht team,there are many players there who I would definitely not consider Connachtmen.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 05/01/2012 16:00:30    1089108

05/01/2012 16:00:30
TheRoad
County: Galway
Posts: 480

1089108 Well Ormond Limerick has always been rugby country.I wouldnt use that as an example as rugby has always been strong there.As for Tipperary Id say hurling people are far more worried about gaelic football taking kids away than rugby.
Tony Ward wrote in an article recently that Irish games are penetrating areas of dublin that they have never penetrated before,especially hurling,the same goes for soccer (athenry all ireland hurling champions 2000, are one of the best soccer clubs in Galway) so just because rugby is expanding its player base dosent mean other sports arent.
As for rugby bring where you come from,all i will say is I have never identified myself as a "Connachtman",and looking at the connacht team,there are many players there who I would definitely not consider Connachtmen.

Not really, gaelic football may be getting stronger but hurling people in north tipp wouldnt be worried about its rise that much as in many clubs in north tipp they dont give a crap about football and they will play it but dont pay it much attention at all or they pay equal attention to both sports
I know just becasue rugby is expanding other sports are not.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 05/01/2012 16:13:56    1089117

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1129

1089086
Culann you Just told me Dublin had 60,000 in croker this year which is impossible so you wipe the brown from your mouth. I'm saying more people in Dublin have more of an interest in soccer than gaa. Whether that's playing soccer watching loi soccer premiership soccer or international soccer. My point about the crowds at landsdowne is, in these hard times no one wants to go and watch Ireland v Armenia or Slovenia or even Russia so that's why gates are down. Culann 90 per cent of loi players are from Dublin 90 per cent of Irish players playing in England are from Dublin 90 per cent of the Ireland team are dubs , so your telling me that Dublin is a gaa county yet we can only win Sam every 16 years haven't won a minor since 84 and have only won 2 under21's in the last 30 years???? With our population that is shocking and embarrassing. I hate this debate cause I have to say bad things about my county to get my point across. Listen it's my opinion and nothing will change that.

dublin had 60 thousand at the donegal match as the donegal county board only got 15 thousand tickets and another 5thousand went on ticketmaster to them so obviously that leaves around the 60 thousand dublin supporters,dublin have always brought around 60 thousand to championship matches you know that clondalkin so i dnt know why you are trying to argue with it.yes this year attendances were down and you referred to in these times well that has to apply to all sports not just the irish soccer team but you say nobody wants to go and see ireland v armenia or russia well then are these people who turn up for games against england or spain not bandwagon supporters if they didnt want to support their team throughout the year but will only turn up for a glamour tie.and you say dublin football supporters are bandwagoners!!!! 90 per cent of the irish soccer team are british born players who are not good enough to play for their own country they are not dubs just look at the jack charlton era most of them werent irish.you say because dublin hadnt won sam in 16years gaa cant be the top game here well would you say rugby is not the top game in new zealand because they had only won the world cup once before this year?dublin are second to kerry on the roll of honour if you check that makes us succesful enough in my book.when was the last time ireland won the world cup in soccer or rugby ? hmmm never

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 05/01/2012 16:57:20    1089149

Of course you are entitled to your opinion Clondalkin Dub as am I. Regarding the 60,000 Dubs I said do be in Croke Park. You disputed this and then I asked you to tell me how many Dubs do be in Croke Park. For some reason you chose not to answer that.

The topic of this thread was about the popularity of sport in Ireland. There is no getting away from the fact that gaelic games have a far larger following/fanbase than Irish soccer in Ireland and in Dublin. I do not know why you are disputing that. Again, regarding soccer played in other countries, that has nothing to do with soccer in Ireland. If 'Irish media' and Irish/Dublin people choose to follow big business soccer clubs in England that is their decision but it is not Irish sport. Also i would guess that the vast majority of these English soccer followers have never even gone to see ''their'' English club and ''their local heroes'' play.

By the way no one is making you speak out against your beloved Dubs it is your choice to do so or not to do so.

Regarding attendances at Croke Park, I would be pretty confident of saying that there were very close to 60,000 Dubs packed into Croke Park on occasions over the last ten years when there were full houses and would I be very confident in saying that up to 50,000 Dubs were packed in nearly evertime there was a full house involving the Dubs. If you don't agree with that back it up with facts/numbers!!!

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 05/01/2012 17:15:15    1089159

Hill you obviously weren't at the donegal match cause to say there was only 20,000 Donegal supporters is ridiculous. It's amazing new Zealand have won 2 seen as they only have 3 million people but rugby is a religion there it's not anywhere else. There's very few English born players with the Ireland squad now. Why have Ireland not won the world cup cause are population is way to small to compete with the bigger countries and gaa is number 1 in Ireland.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 05/01/2012 17:21:04    1089163

05/01/2012 17:21:04
clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1130

1089163 Hill you obviously weren't at the donegal match cause to say there was only 20,000 Donegal supporters is ridiculous. It's amazing new Zealand have won 2 seen as they only have 3 million people but rugby is a religion there it's not anywhere else. There's very few English born players with the Ireland squad now. Why have Ireland not won the world cup cause are population is way to small to compete with the bigger countries and gaa is number 1 in Ireland.

Theres actually 4 million people in new zealand ;]
Rugby is also a "religion" in south wales, parts of england(leicester,northampton area), south of france.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 05/01/2012 17:44:17    1089178

One thing thats agreed upon is the Gaa have a product that needs to be marketed better. more television exposure, just watching the clip for the start of the league on setanta makes me wish we could have leagues that run longer and with more importance. maybe a new gaa magazine every week or fortnight with information and interviews with players. Although i believe the gaa is still the biggest sport in ireland, In this media and internet driven society you cant afford to sit on your laurels. last year ufc in america over took boxing in pay per view events for the first time ,10 years ago people in america would have laughed if you said boxing could be over taken by a martial arts competition. The spring series is a great idea ,they need some more to grap the attention of the public and then they should be calling the shots to the tv stations.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 05/01/2012 19:26:08    1089239

I agree with a lot you said there Áth Cliath. The GAA have to do a lot more to market their games. However, it must be said that TG4 are doing huge work in promoting the GAA and I hope the GAA appreciate what they are doing. Between Seó Spóirt, the club championships, peil na mban, na comórtais chamógaíochta, the broadcasting of the international series, cúil na bliana, buaicphointe na bliana and lots more, TG4 have been brilliant for the GAA.

If you go into Easons you will find about 6 or 7 English soccer magazines on the shelf, 5 or 6 golf magazines, one or two rugby magazines and no GAA magazines (I know that the Hogan Stand is printed at certain times of the year at cannot be printed all year round due to funding and I hope the GAA are reading this!!). The only regular publication for GAA supporters is Gaelic Life and that only focuses on Ulster teams.

I hope the GAA get the finger out with regards to this. They are lagging way behind. Good point Áth Cliath. Fair play dhuit!

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 05/01/2012 20:13:44    1089268

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1133

1089163
Hill you obviously weren't at the donegal match cause to say there was only 20,000 Donegal supporters is ridiculous. It's amazing new Zealand have won 2 seen as they only have 3 million people but rugby is a religion there it's not anywhere else. There's very few English born players with the Ireland squad now. Why have Ireland not won the world cup cause are population is way to small to compete with the bigger countries and gaa is number 1 in Ireland.

i was at the match and yes there was alot of donegal supporters but to say they had more then dublin is ridiculous.population is a ridiculous arguement for new zealand in rugby and ireland in soccer.so why have china never won the world cup in soccer seen as they have around 20 per cent of the worlds population?
why have kerry won more all irelands then cork seen as they are next to each other and cork have much bigger population? ok what about leon best,caleb folan,
sean st ledger,aiden mcgeady,john walters,james mccarthy,keiren westwood,kevin kilbane,liam lawrence,paul green there all british born

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 06/01/2012 09:59:02    1089345