01/03/2012 18:08:28
KELF
County: Kildare
Posts: 48

1120651 It would be far more difficult to make KK hurling than most Rugby teams.

You have to fight your way first onto Under 13 Developement Pabel from thousands of youg KK club hurlers.

Then onto Under 14, 15, 17 17 & Minor. Then through JUnior, Intermediate & Under 21.

I have no doubt young Provincial rugby players do a lot during their year in Academy but the amout of skill work to make a top level hurling team would be massive and over many years.

To make say the Munster team as a pro, you first have the u15 cadets development squad, then u16 cadets, then u17 development squad, then u18 provincial squads, then u19 and then u20 provincial squads and to mke it as a pro you will have to have made it at international level at 18s, 19s and 20s as well and stoood out at international level against teams like france and england where players start off in full time academies at a younger age than we do in ireland

Now be honest most inter county players dont go through junior, intermediate teams before they play senior. Most play minor, 21s then senior

The skill wrk put in by academy players is astonishing and no one here would believe the amount of work they actually do

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/03/2012 18:20:45    1120663

I have NEVER heard the IRFU, Ulster Rubgy or Irish media tell us what they are doing to promote the game in working class schools and districts AND within the Northern Catholic community. All I listen to is Unionists, D4 types and smug, arrogant journalists North and South lecture the GAA and demand that they reach out to Unionism and the British. It is a one way process, we extend the hand but never the other way around; hypocrisy and double standards how are ye?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9840 - 01/03/2012 18:24:19    1120665

01/03/2012 18:12:18
ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 254

1120655 rugby is nowhere near as skillful as football or hurling..the athleticism is also nowhere close to the same...you again ignore all reason and argue that rugby is more skillful when it is evidently not...how many players in rugby actually kick the ball?..connacht are a very poor team who had one good win against harlequins and only qualified for the heineken cup besides leinster won it...how is it possible to even suggest it is harder team to make than the majority of inter county teams??...do you think inter county footballers are not skillful and athletic?

Just because some rugby players dont kick the ball a lot doesnt mean they are not able to kick the ball well.
Have i ever suggested anywhere that inter county footballers are not skillful and athletic. thats hypocritical as you have said that about most pro rugby plsyers
they did qualify for the heineken cup due to leinsters win but that has no relevence on how difficult it is to make the connacht team

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/03/2012 18:24:27    1120666

You are so predictable ormandbanner.............

We were having a laugh as to how soon you would bite !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 01/03/2012 18:27:08    1120673

01/03/2012 18:24:19
Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 4846

1120665 I have NEVER heard the IRFU, Ulster Rubgy or Irish media tell us what they are doing to promote the game in working class schools and districts AND within the Northern Catholic community. All I listen to is Unionists, D4 types and smug, arrogant journalists North and South lecture the GAA and demand that they reach out to Unionism and the British. It is a one way process, we extend the hand but never the other way around; hypocrisy and double standards how are ye?

I live rubgy but kind of prefer rugby. rugby is a much better sport than rubgy
The IRFU through their branches have development officers who are employed to bring rugby to schools and areas where there is few or no rugby clubs.
That is the attitude that i have a problem with "all i listen to is unionist, d4 types". That is a massive cliche similar to rugby followers calling hurling/football bogball etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/03/2012 18:45:39    1120692

It may be a cliche ormond but that doesn't mean it's not true; address the points I make.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9840 - 01/03/2012 18:52:22    1120695

Rugby does far more to promote the games to non traditional areas in Dublin than other sports do, Project Tallaght being a fine example

Ulsterman was wondering have you ever actually been to Dublin 4? Why such a dislike of the place, you know there are great Irish speaking schools and plenty of All Ireland's winners from there

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 01/03/2012 19:09:15    1120714

I know the types well enough monkey and just firstly want to know where do some of these people get their accents? It's like a cross between Lloyd Grossman, a Smashy and Nicey DJ, a horse and the result of a year's failed elocution lessons. I was on a bus coming through Terenure and Rathmines a while back and it was another planet listening to a few studenty types talking. I didn't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for them as vowels were stretched to the extremes to see who couldn't sound Irish and more like a London Sloane Ranger or Boston College Fellow. This is the crowd that fiddles while the rest of the country burns.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9840 - 01/03/2012 21:56:14    1120868

01/03/2012 21:56:14
Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 4851

1120868 I know the types well enough monkey and just firstly want to know where do some of these people get their accents? It's like a cross between Lloyd Grossman, a Smashy and Nicey DJ, a horse and the result of a year's failed elocution lessons. I was on a bus coming through Terenure and Rathmines a while back and it was another planet listening to a few studenty types talking. I didn't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for them as vowels were stretched to the extremes to see who couldn't sound Irish and more like a London Sloane Ranger or Boston College Fellow. This is the crowd that fiddles while the rest of the country burns.

Cop on, why do people here have a go at rugby using socio economics, yes there is quite a few in dublin who play or played rugby or went to rugby playing schools that are quite wealthy. Who cares there is thousands of people playing the sport who are just like you in me and many thousands of others.
Many here hate rugby and say stuff like "d4 sport" when that couldnt be further from the truth and rugby is played all over the country and the "d4 crowd" ye love to criticise is only a small minority of those that play rugby.
Ye talk of the d4 crowd as if hurling and football are only played by average joe soaps. GAA is the same in many cases.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/03/2012 09:20:39    1120888

ormondbannerman


most gaa players at intercounty level will nine times out of ten have been involved in a development squad with the county from under 12 or 13 up if you are not on one of them squads it is very hard to get a look in at inter county level so whatever about intermediate or junior although cork team that won the all ireland in 2010 had a few who had played junior the years before and dublin team to win sam last summer had o gara,bastick,fitsimons all on the team who won the junior all ireland a couple of years before.
your not getting my point im not saying all gaa players are fitter or more skillfull then all hurlers,what im saying is if you took the top 12 gaa countys and the rabo pro 12 rugby teams and done a survey on all the athletes in the squads you would find the gaa would have a higher number of fitter players and more skillfull players then the rugby teams.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 02/03/2012 09:45:13    1120904

02/03/2012 09:45:13
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 1505

1120904 ormondbannerman


most gaa players at intercounty level will nine times out of ten have been involved in a development squad with the county from under 12 or 13 up if you are not on one of them squads it is very hard to get a look in at inter county level so whatever about intermediate or junior although cork team that won the all ireland in 2010 had a few who had played junior the years before and dublin team to win sam last summer had o gara,bastick,fitsimons all on the team who won the junior all ireland a couple of years before.
your not getting my point im not saying all gaa players are fitter or more skillfull then all hurlers,what im saying is if you took the top 12 gaa countys and the rabo pro 12 rugby teams and done a survey on all the athletes in the squads you would find the gaa would have a higher number of fitter players and more skillfull players then the rugby teams.

Do many countys have development squads at u12 level?
That is way too young for development squads. u14 is the ideal age for starting the higher development process. U12 should still be about having plenty of fun when playing and should not be about as much, picking players to play at higher levels
How would you have more guys in the top 12 GAA countys fitter, the guys playing pro 12 rugbys day to day job is being in peak fitness and they have no other worries like going into an office/factory etc to distract/stop them from reaching their peak fitness.
The pro rugby players have top class coaches available to them all day, at their beck and call and they can train harder and longer than GAA players while also getting more rest unlike the GAA players, some of whom may get to train for a similar time period but due to ork etc do not get anywhere near the suitable rest periods that pro rugby players get

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/03/2012 09:58:20    1120912

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1144

1120912
02/03/2012 09:45:13
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 1505

1120904 ormondbannerman


most gaa players at intercounty level will nine times out of ten have been involved in a development squad with the county from under 12 or 13 up if you are not on one of them squads it is very hard to get a look in at inter county level so whatever about intermediate or junior although cork team that won the all ireland in 2010 had a few who had played junior the years before and dublin team to win sam last summer had o gara,bastick,fitsimons all on the team who won the junior all ireland a couple of years before.
your not getting my point im not saying all gaa players are fitter or more skillfull then all hurlers,what im saying is if you took the top 12 gaa countys and the rabo pro 12 rugby teams and done a survey on all the athletes in the squads you would find the gaa would have a higher number of fitter players and more skillfull players then the rugby teams.

Do many countys have development squads at u12 level?
That is way too young for development squads. u14 is the ideal age for starting the higher development process. U12 should still be about having plenty of fun when playing and should not be about as much, picking players to play at higher levels
How would you have more guys in the top 12 GAA countys fitter, the guys playing pro 12 rugbys day to day job is being in peak fitness and they have no other worries like going into an office/factory etc to distract/stop them from reaching their peak fitness.
The pro rugby players have top class coaches available to them all day, at their beck and call and they can train harder and longer than GAA players while also getting more rest unlike the GAA players, some of whom may get to train for a similar time period but due to ork etc do not get anywhere near the suitable rest periods that pro rugby players get

well I was part of dublin squad at under 12 level north v south dublin tournament runs every easter.
then also had dublin side go to london for a match at under 13.
from under 14 up went into playing teams in leinster.
simple answer is because gaa players focus more on athletic fitness then physical fitness
its not about how many hours you do training that gets you fit its more what your doing.you seem to have the concept that no matter what if your professional at something that means your fitter then anybody who is not professional its not true it just means you get paid to do what your doing.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 02/03/2012 10:19:58    1120931

Jaysus lads, I'm rugby fan myself but the majority of posts on the "latest messages in the old format" of BOTH the GAA and the OtherSports forum are about rugby. It's a bit of joke now, something needs to be done.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12494 - 02/03/2012 10:26:34    1120937

02/03/2012 10:19:58
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 1510

1120931 ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1144

1120912
02/03/2012 09:45:13
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 1505

1120904 ormondbannerman


most gaa players at intercounty level will nine times out of ten have been involved in a development squad with the county from under 12 or 13 up if you are not on one of them squads it is very hard to get a look in at inter county level so whatever about intermediate or junior although cork team that won the all ireland in 2010 had a few who had played junior the years before and dublin team to win sam last summer had o gara,bastick,fitsimons all on the team who won the junior all ireland a couple of years before.
your not getting my point im not saying all gaa players are fitter or more skillfull then all hurlers,what im saying is if you took the top 12 gaa countys and the rabo pro 12 rugby teams and done a survey on all the athletes in the squads you would find the gaa would have a higher number of fitter players and more skillfull players then the rugby teams.

Do many countys have development squads at u12 level?
That is way too young for development squads. u14 is the ideal age for starting the higher development process. U12 should still be about having plenty of fun when playing and should not be about as much, picking players to play at higher levels
How would you have more guys in the top 12 GAA countys fitter, the guys playing pro 12 rugbys day to day job is being in peak fitness and they have no other worries like going into an office/factory etc to distract/stop them from reaching their peak fitness.
The pro rugby players have top class coaches available to them all day, at their beck and call and they can train harder and longer than GAA players while also getting more rest unlike the GAA players, some of whom may get to train for a similar time period but due to ork etc do not get anywhere near the suitable rest periods that pro rugby players get

well I was part of dublin squad at under 12 level north v south dublin tournament runs every easter.
then also had dublin side go to london for a match at under 13.
from under 14 up went into playing teams in leinster.
simple answer is because gaa players focus more on athletic fitness then physical fitness
its not about how many hours you do training that gets you fit its more what your doing.you seem to have the concept that no matter what if your professional at something that means your fitter then anybody who is not professional its not true it just means you get paid to do what your doing.

Rugby doesnt concentrate more on "physical fitness", which i presume you mean strength work, than athletic fitness. The style of rugby played recently has moved back to aerobic fitness playing a much bigger role and this belief has drifted down from the pro ranks to the amatuer levels.
For example when i was trying to make the munster u18 team as a backrow i didnt make it as i wasnt 6 foot 3 and 16 stone as i was only 6 foot 1 and 14 and a half stone. Now for the exact same team against the same players at the sizes we were then id make the squad ahead of the bigger guy as the game has changed to wanting quicker, more leaner players rather than bigger players

I know its what you do in training that counts not how many hours you put in but considering the top rugby players are pros with pro coaches and have the best coaches etc money can buy, they will be in most cases fitter and stronger-there will of course be exceptions in some cases. But pro rugby players sole aim is playing and training rugby. They dont have to worry about the following days meeting in work or the project for work that has to be completed. To a pro doing a gym set is the project at work so to speak.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/03/2012 10:33:35    1120948

ormond

look i dont think we are going to agree on this haha I respect what you say and you make good points but I just myself from training all kinds of sports teams cannot see a shift back to aerobic training in rugby circles compared to what it was before the turn of the millenium,its more that from 1-8 on a pitch you can get away with not being in aerobic fitness where as the guys from 9-15 have a far higher level.
I reckon on a football team there is 2 positions at most you could get away with not been at a high level of aerobic fitness goalkeeper and full back

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 02/03/2012 10:40:44    1120957

02/03/2012 10:40:44
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 1514

1120957 ormond

look i dont think we are going to agree on this haha I respect what you say and you make good points but I just myself from training all kinds of sports teams cannot see a shift back to aerobic training in rugby circles compared to what it was before the turn of the millenium,its more that from 1-8 on a pitch you can get away with not being in aerobic fitness where as the guys from 9-15 have a far higher level.
I reckon on a football team there is 2 positions at most you could get away with not been at a high level of aerobic fitness goalkeeper and full back

From personal experience i know of the change
To play at the top level in the back row as well as most 2nd rows and even the hookers in the front row you have to be incredibly aerobically fit and to play in the back row in many cases you have to be as fit and as fast as a winger especially your openside flanker and your number 8, your blindside flanker will be more similar to your 2nds rows
positions 5-15 on a rugby pitch have to have incredible aerobic fitness levels, numbers 1-4 not as much

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/03/2012 10:48:48    1120962