pplocal
Creative forwards are best utilised where they can do the best job for their team is the straight answer.

And where would that be?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 07/11/2011 19:30:41    1064760

And where would that be?

McGuigan spent plenty of time attacking. Dunno what you're on about tbh.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 07/11/2011 20:30:12    1064800

I'm not too sure either, he seems to think he was played primarily as a centre-half back. Anyone who watched Tyrone could tell you how important McGuigan was and how many scores he set up. There's nothing really more to be said, if you had watched Tyrone you would have seen this

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 07/11/2011 20:41:48    1064813

I agree lads, I don't know what your man is on about, Brian was a class act

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 07/11/2011 20:56:17    1064827

Were these two players, Jordan and Mcguigan really as good as people are saying? For me they couldnt polish Peter Canavans boots nore Plunket Donaghy's for that matter. These players were average and slotted in nicely to a well organised defensively running side. To say they're the best to wear the Tyrone jersey is rubbish, the harte system won Tyrone's all irelands not the greatness of individual players. Thats why we will win again very soon.

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 08/11/2011 11:04:38    1064949

cacsmckilly
County: Tyrone
Posts: 110

1064949
Were these two players, Jordan and Mcguigan really as good as people are saying? For me they couldnt polish Peter Canavans boots nore Plunket Donaghy's for that matter. These players were average and slotted in nicely to a well organised defensively running side. To say they're the best to wear the Tyrone jersey is rubbish, the harte system won Tyrone's all irelands not the greatness of individual players. Thats why we will win again very soon.

Id agree with you that Jordan was average enough but McGuigan was a great player some of what would have been the best part of his playing days were hampered by Injury

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 08/11/2011 11:31:08    1064965

clondalkindub, and whoever else was jumping on the bandwagon, if you read the post pplocal is responding to, you would see that I was the one saying mcguigan was a top player with very rare creative abilities. As cacsmckilly points out, harte played a defensive system that did not cater for exceptional individual abilites. It is pretty simple logic to say that playing mcguigan (or indeed any forward) that far back the field limits their opportunities to do what they do best. The same argument was put forward about michael murphy this year. I dont buy this 'if they dont have the ball then it doesnt matter' bit because when it is turned over they are back behind their own 40 when by right they should be on the opposition 40 looking to recieve it. Even in spite of this mcguigan still stood out, but it is a shame we didnt get to see more of that rare talent he had for creating higher up the field, that was my point. But anyway pplocal, centre back was it?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/11/2011 13:49:02    1065086

I said it in jest but are you actually claiming that you would have better utilised Tyrone's players than Mickey Harte? If so I'd make yourself known to the Mayo county board, with that tactical nous the decades of hurt could soon be over. Most of what you have said is completely incorrect but you are unable to admit that, instead trying to bore us into submission. You think McGuigan spent the majority of the time in his own half. That's entirely false but I can't prove it, if you said Mulligan spent the majority of games in his full-back line (it wouldn't surprise me if you did think that) I wouldn't be able to disprove it either. But feel free to repeat this over and over and over again

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 08/11/2011 14:16:54    1065107

pplocal
County: Tyrone
Posts: 4251

You think McGuigan spent the majority of the time in his own half. That's entirely false but I can't prove it.
-------------------------------------------------

I can, simply by referring anyone who has a spare half hour on their hands to watch the first half of the 2003 semi final on Youtube. This is is the most misunderstood game of football in the last decade. Tyrone are often cited as playing ultra-defensively and hitting kerry on the counter attack, when actually it was it was nothing of the sort. Tyrone pressed Kerry for the first 25 minutes of that game in a way that no side before (or since) has ever done. Seriously, watch the video, and you'll be amazed at how completely in control Tyrone were in the first half, against some of the very best players of the last 30 years. I'll admit that in the 2nd half they dropped too deep, but the game was already won then.

I watched this a few months ago and was reminded that no Kerry player got his hands on the ball inside the Tyrone 65 for almost 10 minutes! How is that possible if Tyrone were defending in numbers? The famous 'swarm' took place under the hoganstand and close to the Kerry 45m line, and the first 2 Tyrone players to arrive on the scene were half backs Philly Jordan and Gavin Devlin. Tyrone's CHB and LHB were making tackles inside the LHF position - hardly indicative of a side sitting back and defending.

I've said it on here before, but the likes of that Cacs fella from Tyrone and many others don't see it, but Mickey Harte did not introduce a defensive style of football. What he did was take pressing to a new level. The pressure came from the full-forward line, but not because they were playing deep. It was high up the field and forced turn-overs. The style changed over time, especially by 2008 when we no longer had the same legs in attack and did rely more on counter-attacking, but in the early years Tyrone were not defensive. They were aggressive and tackled in numbers, but the positioning on the field was totally different from what we saw from the likes of Donegal 7 Dublin this year.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 08/11/2011 14:41:52    1065129

The master stop it now , your talking rubbish.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 08/11/2011 15:02:25    1065146

clondalkin,

'Rubbish' is a common occurance when the master is on the board im afraid!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 08/11/2011 15:13:17    1065154

As cacsmckilly points out, harte played a defensive system that did not cater for exceptional individual abilites.

How did it not cater for exceptional individual abilities? Players like Stephen O'Neill, Sean Cavanagh, Mulligan gave great individual performances over the years. Was Tyrone's eight all-stars in 2008 a record, perhaps (I'm not sure)? Tyrone were both defensive and attack minded. I think the gameplan was based more on work-rate and intensity than anything else - perhaps why Tyrone struggled to win two in a row. A very different gameplan to Donegal's which just seemed to be based on getting everyone behind the ball - Tyrone didn't really play a conventional blanket defence, and the current Donegal and Dublin teams are more defensive than Tyrone ever were (although in fairness Dublin cut loose against Tyrone this year). I don't get this argument about Tyrone being overly defensive - for example in the QF, Semi-Final and Final in 08 Tyrone scored 3-14, 0-23 and 1-14. In the same respective stages in 05 Tyrone scored 1-14, 2-18, 1-13 and 1-15. Are Tyrone not attack-minded enough for you if they don't score 30 points a game lol? I don't know why I'm arguing about this, I feel like im just stating the obvious.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 08/11/2011 15:15:32    1065158

Btw, no offence intended to the Donegal and Dublin fans on here - I was happy to see Dublin win this year etc.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 08/11/2011 15:16:52    1065159

'I can, simply by referring anyone who has a spare half hour on their hands to watch the first half of the 2003 semi final on Youtube. '

TheMaster clearly didn't watch Tyrone play live at the time so I doubt he'd watch them play on youtube. Of course what you are saying is correct, these claims are ignorant and false but reflect some of the lazy journalism and punditry of the time

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 08/11/2011 15:39:35    1065177

0:22 to 1:22, I'll never forget the look on the faces of the Kerry ones around me. Absolutely brilliant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxUh5xsyz1E

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 08/11/2011 15:44:41    1065184

The success that Tyrone gained came about by hard work and a solid game plan. None of the players were exceptional apart from Peter Canavan. What does it mean to be exceptional - its means to have skill set way above an other gaelic player.

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 08/11/2011 16:03:51    1065197

pplocal,the look of "the kerry ones".Its called disgust. Most of the country would have looked the same.You shouldnt gloat. We were all looking on in horror at the birth of puke football,and the game has suffered for it since.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 08/11/2011 16:04:23    1065200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxUh5xsyz1E
pplocal , 08/11/2011 at 15:44
--------------------------------------

Im about to fetch up my crab claws and chowder lunch after watching that "Puke Football"!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 08/11/2011 16:08:11    1065203

Great great players, good luck to them, Kerry lads wont be sorry to see the back of them!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8770 - 08/11/2011 16:19:33    1065209

The GAA had never seen such intensity, such pressing, such fitness. Tyrone raised the bar and the likes of Kerry, Cork and Dublin to their credit went that extra mile with them to compete. It's all about winning and that Tyrone team would do anything to get their hands on their first All-Ireland, with a fair amount of skill to boot. They showed further in '05 and '08 what a good footballing side they were. If you're not going forward you're going backwards TheRoad

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 08/11/2011 16:24:12    1065211