Dont know Slash Ghandi springs to mind, also a big difference between defending your home and planting a bomb on a busy shopping street or shooting up a pub

While I can understand what drove people to join the IRA, nothing justifies their random and indiscriminate killing of innocent people

There is no going back from this type of violence and full respect to those who have switched to the path of peaceful means and encouraged others to do so like McGuinness but the president is meant to be a representation of the all the goodness and decency of Irish people , a unifying character, because of McGuinness past he can never fulfil that role and is too divisive a figure to carry out the job

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 29/09/2011 21:41:31    1044247

Bad monkey I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but the Americans and British bomb middle eastern cities and towns indiscriminately in defence of their homelands and the civilised statesmen of the un pass bills to commend them in this and our very own civilised and decent leaders who are appalled at mc guiness provide them assistance to do this defending by giving free access through shannon. It does get all very confusing for me sometimes.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/09/2011 21:57:26    1044260

Derryman I would imagine if those same leaders stood for election in those middle eastern cities and towns after bombing them they would be be unsuccessful to put it mildly

The problem is McGuinness and the IRA killed and bombed lots of people they purported to be protecting, just innocent ordinary people. Anyone here could have been killed by them it was just blind luck that we were not. We werent in the wrong place at the wrong time. Now he is asking us innocent ordinary people to vote for him to represent us, the same man who gave no respect to our very lives through sustained bombing campaigns in public places. He is not suitable for the position IMO, too divisive a figure with a background of horrific violence.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 30/09/2011 09:07:14    1044273

derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 2852

You where making points very valid ones, opinions I could agree with.
In terms of terrorists and freedom fighters, like many in ireland my grandfather served time on active duty and spent time in prison in the war of independance - his cousin a serving RIC man was shot dead in Galway at his sons holy communion. But with all the great powers of hindsight are these really murderers and terrorists? To me that accusation is just sanctimonious revisionist BS, in history real winners take all, the end justifies the means period, the British lowered the flag over Dublin Castle at the point of the gun backed up by the will of the great mass of the people.
And while some go on about how many people Irishmen killed in fighting for freedom, it pales into insignificance when you compare those tiny numbers against how many young men died on the word of a political failure like Redmond. If you add up the amount of people killed in 1798, Robert Emmet, the fenian unrest, 1916, war of independance and the troubles that is the sum total of those killed by advocates of so-called modern physical force republicans. Compare that amount to those who died fighting for Home Rule for a so-called democratic Nationalist like Redmond, a man who also spoke of a "blood sacrifice" to "prove" to the British we where worthy of Home Rule LOL. And the carnage that was the rebellion of 1798 now that was real cruel evil butchery even if you allow for that it still is less than amount that Redmond sent to their deaths.

It won't change nothing McGuinness will do well. I thought George Hook lost the plot completely and disgracefully while interviewing Senator Norris, both candidates have a right to stand and be voted on but Hook is just an loud mouth in my opinion.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 30/09/2011 09:10:36    1044275

Well the British arent running for President of Ireland are they? Martin McGuinness who was a member of this organisation is so that is all I am concerned with given the context of this thread which is President Marty.

Serious question here why all the diverging tactics. Nelson Mandella this the Brits did that. It doesnt matter in the slightest with regard to McGuinness running for President of Ireland. It is his past actions that I am concerned with.

Paddy your double standards are laughable. I showed you two members of the same family, a father and son, one killed by the IRA, one killed by the British army. You condemn and are outraged by the IRA killing but say you cant possibly comment upon the killing by the Britsh army because it's out of 'context of this thread'.

That's truly pathetic and shows your agenda to all other posters on this site.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 30/09/2011 09:26:53    1044286

this is funnier the more it goes on- ye really couldnt make it up! the two top brass of SF/ IRA have completely abondoned the people of the north and yet the people of the north are the only ones defending them- this has been and will be a complete and utter disaster for SF/IRA, but as was said on newstalk yesterday the northern people are o twisted and blind from reality that they cannot see that then have being completely used by the SF/IRA PR machine, i suppose the old addage holds if ya can find an idiot you should exploit them- problem is SF forgot that they are dealing with real people with moral in the republic who do not condone muder.

questions still to be answered

How many people did mcguinness murder?
How many people did he order to be murdered?
When and why did he leave the IRA?
What position did he hold in the IRA?
Was he on the army council of the IRA, and is he still on it?
Does he believe Baron Adams was never in the IRA?
What exactly is a west brit? as to date it appears to be anyone who doesnt support terrorism.

We will keep asking the questions and martin can keep telling us he is whiter than white, as gay byrne said 'lying is so easy for mcguinness its almost second nature at this stage, he cant tell the difference between reality and his IRA propaganda version of it'

Anyways is appears Nelson Mandella is now the front runner to win the election as he is recieving the most attention- lets be clear about once thing between the 7 candidates they dont even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Nelson Mandella. if you were to listen to mcguinness you would think that mandella was a member of the IRA such is how nobel and rightful the IRAs campaign of murdering and ethnic cleansing was!

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 30/09/2011 09:48:42    1044298

paddyogall
County: Mayo
Posts: 4272

Ah yes Real men take mentally handicapped kids from there school and shoot them in their head for being touts.


Thats not what I said, you're simply pushing your own pro-British agenda here. I said I admire a man who takes up arms in defence of his family or home. I'm going to be honest patrick, I wouldn't expect you to do that, I'd say you'd be more than happy to let British soldiers run through your home and terrorise your family, just as long as you escaped out the back door unharmed. You're a bit of a Quisling, look up what that means now.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 30/09/2011 10:07:49    1044309

cant wait to see marty chew on his foot on the late late tonight- will he be bringing nelson mandella to canvass for him, because supposedly there are sbasically the same person if you were to listen to SF/IRA

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 30/09/2011 10:13:52    1044312

Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 1056

Yes absolutely its pro British to be against the murder and abuse of Children, especially mentally handicaped children.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 30/09/2011 10:27:33    1044324

People who are anti McGuinness in the South are simply from the Pro Treaty era, it just shows you that their are two enemies of Irish Gaels. These are the northern unionists and the southern partitionists, both are anti Sinn Feinn and Pro British

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 30/09/2011 10:44:08    1044340

cant help but be amused by some of the ill-feeling Marty has been eliciting in the southern media and some areas of society, but then again its hardly surprising. The 26 counties has long been divided by its outlook and sentiment where republicanism/nationalism is concerned. whereas the border areas of donegal, monaghan, louth and donegal and the 'poorer' areas of dublin, the rebel county and other pockets of the country are still unashamedly nationalist and still believe its acceptable to be a republican and to be a proud one at that, the west brit media and the monied minority in the country are now it seems happy to turn their backs on there own past as long as they have wealth and opportunity to live their lush lives.

two generations ago it was okay to be a republican, to fight for your country, but thats because we all had nothing but a common hatred of oppression. devalera was happy to be considered an IRA man until he smelled the unmistakeable whiff of power. Now money and power have turned the heads of too many.

so martin mcguinness, a man who is as irish as they come is heckled when he decides to run for the presidency, but yet others such as jackie mcdonald, who wouldnt spit on anyone in the south if they were on fire, is lauded in the aras and supported in his bid for entrance into america.

and if we are going to lay out Martins faults lets take a look at the other candidates...

Higgins...too old surely, doubtful to see out the post in full health, and surely the president should be someone who is relatively in tune to what the people want?
gallagher..also ran, nohoper in my opinion
norris...so hes anti-establishment because of his sexuality and outlook, but hes never apologised for what he did on behalf of his lover, and electing him would make us the laughing stock of the world..
dana...total joke in my opinion
the rest are not worth a mention

the simple fact as i see it is that the west brit media and free-staters dont want mcguinness because he might actually shake up what has become a rotten to the core inner sanctum ruling over a disillusioned country who were lied to for too long...ireland hasd become what it despised merely 100 years ago, a society where the silent majority is controlled by a greedy, selfcentred imperialistic minority..and maybe the man to change that is Martin...

ballyoisin_bomb (Monaghan) - Posts: 183 - 30/09/2011 11:14:08    1044360

Don't forget your other enemies, which are mentally handicapped children and women collecting census forms.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 30/09/2011 11:31:37    1044376

link

Great piece on the election here.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 30/09/2011 11:41:22    1044382

Paddyogall you still havent explained your hypocritical stance on the Teggert family killings? Obviously you just ignore posts which show your double standards and prefer to simply repeat ad nauseam your same tired old points.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 30/09/2011 11:54:02    1044389

Interesting piece alright Seamus and very relevant given the IRA's stance on the abuse of children. Given this report by Kennedy (2001) http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/docs/kennedy01.htm

I see a young fella from Monaghan above in support of the Sinn Fein candidate. I will ask you this question, just say you are out and about with your friends. Having a few drinks etc and getting into a bit of mischief, maybe mitching from school the way youngster do. Would you like masked men to burst into your room and physicaly abuse the way the IRA did? I'd have a serious think about the type of Ireland you want to live in.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 30/09/2011 11:57:58    1044393

ballyoisin_bomb
County: Monaghan
Posts: 87

1044360 cant help but be amused by some of the ill-feeling Marty has been eliciting in the southern media and some areas of society, but then again its hardly surprising. The 26 counties has long been divided by its outlook and sentiment where republicanism/nationalism is concerned. whereas the border areas of donegal, monaghan, louth and donegal and the 'poorer' areas of dublin, the rebel county and other pockets of the country are still unashamedly nationalist and still believe its acceptable to be a republican and to be a proud one at that, the west brit media and the monied minority in the country are now it seems happy to turn their backs on there own past as long as they have wealth and opportunity to live their lush lives.

two generations ago it was okay to be a republican, to fight for your country, but thats because we all had nothing but a common hatred of oppression. devalera was happy to be considered an IRA man until he smelled the unmistakeable whiff of power. Now money and power have turned the heads of too many.

so martin mcguinness, a man who is as irish as they come is heckled when he decides to run for the presidency, but yet others such as jackie mcdonald, who wouldnt spit on anyone in the south if they were on fire, is lauded in the aras and supported in his bid for entrance into america.

and if we are going to lay out Martins faults lets take a look at the other candidates...

Higgins...too old surely, doubtful to see out the post in full health, and surely the president should be someone who is relatively in tune to what the people want?
gallagher..also ran, nohoper in my opinion
norris...so hes anti-establishment because of his sexuality and outlook, but hes never apologised for what he did on behalf of his lover, and electing him would make us the laughing stock of the world..
dana...total joke in my opinion
the rest are not worth a mention

the simple fact as i see it is that the west brit media and free-staters dont want mcguinness because he might actually shake up what has become a rotten to the core inner sanctum ruling over a disillusioned country who were lied to for too long...ireland hasd become what it despised merely 100 years ago, a society where the silent majority is controlled by a greedy, selfcentred imperialistic minority..and maybe the man to change that is Martin...

------------

so we turned to money while your lot turned to murdering? fair enough it again shows we are better than the SF/IRA mob. 100 years ago, the heros you are on about were spat on when they were led away for execution and the romantic nothin that the 1916 uprising was supported by the irish people is a complete myth they were venomentally opposed to the rising. does that make us west brits? if so then we were always west brits, the insults dont bother us, we are better then the people of northern ireland and we will always call things exactly as we see it- we should never be afriad of the truth! imagine the stupidity of the SF/IRA mob when they think they can insult us into thinking the IRA was any more than a criminal gang with a thirst for murdering people, the more innocvent they were the more the IRA enjoyed it! is martin mc guinness any different to any member of the shankill butchers? NO HE IS THE EXACT SAME, or should we call him nelson mandella now :D

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 30/09/2011 12:00:42    1044395

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 1345

Double standard on what? The British state is not running to be President of Ireland. I think what the British and Unionists did was apalling too but it was no excuse to murder mentally handicapped kids and women collecting census forms. McGuinness was part of this organisation, hence he is not fit to be head of state of this Government. Will he tell the truth though? his asecersion is that he left the IRA in 1974. Secret Gardai briefings state that himself and Adams were part of the IRA Army council, a council that did not recognise the state that he is now running for election in and a council that santcioned the orders of the IRA. The Garai briefings to Bertie Ahern continued until the mid 2000's


http://www.sbpost.ie/news/secret-garda-briefings-said-mcguinness-was-ira-chief-58727.html

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 30/09/2011 12:15:20    1044413

I see a young fella from Monaghan above in support of the Sinn Fein candidate. I will ask you this question, just say you are out and about with your friends. Having a few drinks etc and getting into a bit of mischief, maybe mitching from school the way youngster do. Would you like masked men to burst into your room and physicaly abuse the way the IRA did? I'd have a serious think about the type of Ireland you want to live in.

Paddy you will find it was a little more than mitching from school as you put it more like joyriding, drugs and anti social behavior to the local community and let me tell you they would have been warned many times before any action was taken.

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 30/09/2011 12:33:03    1044437

Mulligan Eamonn
County: All
Posts: 682

1044437
I see a young fella from Monaghan above in support of the Sinn Fein candidate. I will ask you this question, just say you are out and about with your friends. Having a few drinks etc and getting into a bit of mischief, maybe mitching from school the way youngster do. Would you like masked men to burst into your room and physicaly abuse the way the IRA did? I'd have a serious think about the type of Ireland you want to live in.

Paddy you will find it was a little more than mitching from school as you put it more like joyriding, drugs and anti social behavior to the local community and let me tell you they would have been warned many times before any action was taken.

Dont forget mentally handicapped kids.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 30/09/2011 12:45:10    1044443

Senior British and Irish politicians, who negotiated with both men to bring the conflict in the North to an end, have said that they believe Adams and McGuinness were speaking for the IRA.

Paddy believe is a very big word but in this instance its only someone's option not fact and who would believe any English or Irish politician after the mess they have got the Countries into

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 30/09/2011 12:56:44    1044455