there will never be a United Ireland, a push for it would lead us back into the dark days of violence, that is a sad fact

Jonny with respect that's not a fact but your opinion.

The difference to the old days is that a push for a United Ireland nowadays is being made through constitutional and democratic means and not through force-of-arms. If a democratic vote is taken at some point in the future which chooses to reunite the country then it will not necessarily lead to violence and in all likelihood will not.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 27/09/2011 10:18:22    1042704

Lad what planet are you on? Of course it will lead to viloence. If you think that the Loyalist extremities would just accept a democratic vote than you are dreaming. I think you may be over estimating the power of change McGuinness could bring.

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 27/09/2011 10:51:46    1042729

Re jonny1951,
Why are you so ignorant by calling him lad by doing so you are talking down to him.
He is allowed to a opinion as well as you.

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 27/09/2011 11:26:39    1042745

Mulligan are you having a laugh? Apologies for my use of language, it is a bad habit I have. "Yes lad" would be my greeting of choice to my friends, I am not talking down to anyone so get a grip.

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 27/09/2011 11:40:26    1042756

jonny1951
County: Mayo
Posts: 905

1042729
Lad what planet are you on? Of course it will lead to viloence. If you think that the Loyalist extremities would just accept a democratic vote than you are dreaming. I think you may be over estimating the power of change McGuinness could bring.

There are no loyalist paramilitaries anymore, just a few renegades dealing drugs. Completely incapable of causing major disruption.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 27/09/2011 13:34:08    1042836

another great article about the shambles that is republicanism by the great fintan o toole today- its a must read folks. well its well and truly game up for mc guinness the people the media, basically everyone hates him. im still laughing about the 'ive never murdered or being an accessory to the murder of anyone, but i have shot a gun' - mean this was like danny morrison the head of propaganda of SF/IRA and the complete roasting he got on the last word. the chickens are well and truly coming home to roost for the SF/IRA mob whos versions of moving on etc. only apply to their own actions, get the tricolours out in londonderry folks to celebrate another epic failure and personally i cannot wait to laugh in the face of all those who support this terrorist, Imagine there havent even being a revelations about the man yet and he is in serious trouble, while the supporters all live in denial the irish people will not be fooled by any foreign terrorists, we never have and never will.

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 27/09/2011 13:47:07    1042851

Completely incapable of causing major destruction? Give me strength.

henrik51 (Offaly) - Posts: 25 - 27/09/2011 14:16:38    1042877

henrik51
County: Offaly
Posts: 5

1042877 Completely incapable of causing major destruction? Give me strength.

-------------

well in fairness what were the IRA ever capable of- 40 years achieved absolutely nothing and that is the best thing about it all, and now ye want to forget the criomes ye by and large supported- not a chance! the aras will be burned to the ground before that terrorist gets anywhere near it- the zoo is next door its a more appropriate place i think to cage the SF animals

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 27/09/2011 14:36:18    1042896

Totally disagree slash. In my opinion they could easily start up again.

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 27/09/2011 14:49:53    1042901

Henrik what is the relevance of the 51 if you don't mind me asking?

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 27/09/2011 16:46:41    1042974

I actually agree with jonny; underneath the veneer of peace still lurks a dark, nasty, bitter sectarianism in the North that wouldn't take much to set off again. My fear is that dissidents take out a Protestant policeman, kill a Unionist or Loyalist, elements on that side will take some sort of retribution. Jackie McDonald of the UDA has said as much in recent times (he said they can't hold everyone back) and I believe he is one of the more positive elements in Loyalism now. I know from experience that these things can snowball when they start.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 27/09/2011 17:33:17    1043001

jonny, fair enough you think Loyalists would commence violence if the constitutional position changed. There may well be some violence but I think it would be limited and would quickly die away. There are a number of reasons I hold this view:

1. Loyalists no longer have the strength they once had. Within their own communities they are simply drung dealing parasites and are rejected by most Unionist folk. They are no longer backed by the Unionist government or the British government. i.e. they no longer have any power or ar to be feared in the vast majority of the 6 counties.
2. Once Ireland is united the constitutional question will have been permanently settled. There will be no going back, no re-negotiation, no all party talks etc, that it will be it, get over it and get on with it etc etc. Even the most intellectually challenged Loyalist cannot think any different.
3. The justice system in the North is now at long last approaching neutral, by the time a United Ireland occurs it definately will be as Nationalists will have reached all upper echelons of all areas of the justice system. If volence were to break out it would be quickly suppressed by a police force and court system which would no longer view their political ideology with favour.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 27/09/2011 17:33:52    1043003

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 1328

1043003
jonny, fair enough you think Loyalists would commence violence if the constitutional position changed. There may well be some violence but I think it would be limited and would quickly die away. There are a number of reasons I hold this view:

1. Loyalists no longer have the strength they once had. Within their own communities they are simply drung dealing parasites and are rejected by most Unionist folk. They are no longer backed by the Unionist government or the British government. i.e. they no longer have any power or ar to be feared in the vast majority of the 6 counties.
2. Once Ireland is united the constitutional question will have been permanently settled. There will be no going back, no re-negotiation, no all party talks etc, that it will be it, get over it and get on with it etc etc. Even the most intellectually challenged Loyalist cannot think any different.
3. The justice system in the North is now at long last approaching neutral, by the time a United Ireland occurs it definately will be as Nationalists will have reached all upper echelons of all areas of the justice system. If volence were to break out it would be quickly suppressed by a police force and court system which would no longer view their political ideology with favour.

Totally agree with you Goodfella, Tir and the rest of them who don't like it will head back to Scotland where their Ancestors came from.

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 27/09/2011 17:44:00    1043012

Drug dealing parasites, as are their republican equivalant. Lads i'd love to share your enthusiasm for the picture you paint but I don't see it. Don't forget that they still haven't been able to convince both sides of the communities to take down the peace walls for gods sake. There was huge media attention to one being taken down in North Belfast last week but the reality is a lot of the barriers are actually being strengthened. Yet you tell me that they will accept whatever is decided, dream on.

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 27/09/2011 18:17:21    1043035

There seems to be an Irony that the possible threat of loyalist violence is the only reason so many posters refuse to contemplate reunification however the threat of republican violence is not a consideration at all.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 27/09/2011 21:10:34    1043125

Derryman not sure what your point is?

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 27/09/2011 21:28:07    1043133

Derryman not sure what your point is?

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 27/09/2011 21:30:31    1043136

I believe that the aspirations of the men of 1916 and the members of the first dail have never been fulfilled. Eamonn Devalera sidetracked the whole issue when he failed to support Collins and Griffiths. Had Sinn Fein remained united then Ireland would have had a very different recent History. Devalera never cared for the 6 counties and I think the Party he founded has proved the same. They and Fine Gael were both one and the same the only difference being in their perception of De Valera. Sinn Fein were led down the track of abstentionism by Devalera and when he realised that it was a road to nowhere he jumped ship. Sinn Fein were totally irrelevant as a political force for 60 years after. However since 1981 Sinn Fein have been building as a political force and they certainly are felt by the establishment to be a threat to their position. The unfinished business of the first Dail has yet to be taken care of. Martin Mc Guiness as President will certainly bring this unfinished business to the fore Even should he fail, his candidature has pushed it a long way up the agenda. Unification is unavoidable and I now believe that Patrique is correct that it has been decided already and we are simply waiting for Sinn Fein to be ready to lead the nation to it. And I also believe that when Unification happens Sinn Fein will all but dissapear not willingly but because the impact of the unionist vote will pretty much wipe them out.

I would also add that the media's frenzied attack upon Mc Guiness is because of the fact he is reminding everyone in the ROI that there is unfinished business that must be addressed.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 27/09/2011 21:33:15    1043138

Well I am not finding it easy to articulate but sort of like this." We cant have a united Ireland because the loyalist wont like it and might get violent. but no one says we should have a united Ireland because the nationalist would like it and they have got violent"

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 27/09/2011 21:37:30    1043141

jonny1951
County: Mayo
Posts: 911

1043133
Derryman not sure what your point is?

The point he is trying to make that if the minority nationalists in Northern Ireland dont get there way, they will throw their toys out of the pram and start killing innocent women and children again. Or at least they will make the threats about it.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 27/09/2011 21:38:03    1043142