Perhaps walking into a job in heavy industry did play a part in the unionist working class failing to reach higher standards of education, however that industry has disappeared a long time ago and can't really be used to explain the extremely poor standard of education being given to young children from working class unionist communities today.

Unionist working class children don't have the Catholic Church to provided them with an education, poor standard State schools is the order of the day, while their middle classes pay for grammar schools and forget about them. A SF minister did try to change this, but as we know if it's proposed by a shinner then it must automatically be bad for all unionists.

It was the Catholic Church who provided a first class education to Catholics (while the State shunned them), something that's quite slow to be recognised. As commented upon, Irish language schools in the north consistently out perform their counterparts, which would lead me to believe it is indeed the way the language is being taught and developed down south, dare I suggest you learn from the north?

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1795 - 31/08/2011 16:34:54    1024104

Good idea Horse/Dhorse or dung bag.When you're at you might as well ban The Rose of Tralee,Eurovision song contest and Camogie.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 01/09/2011 09:47:07    1024458

Jaysus some people obviously love their gaelscoils, pity they can't get it in to their thick skulls that we speak English these days, it is infact or first language now.......deal with it.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/09/2011 10:05:38    1024476

Jaysus some people obviously love their gaelscoils, pity they can't get it in to their thick skulls that we speak English these days, it is infact or first language now.......deal with it.

When calling others thick you may care to check that your spelling is correct, it undermines your point.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 01/09/2011 10:49:10    1024503

i know people who have learnt through the irish medium and it is a great advantage , especially in the north where it can be taken as a GCSE when you are say 13 or 14 year old , whats the harm in being able to speak in Irish? It then allows you to work on other subjects

cboyle92 (Down) - Posts: 184 - 01/09/2011 11:27:55    1024537

I'm sorry if my spelling gets to you goodfella but to be fair a lot of my posts are pretty rushed and I don't have time to go over them with a fine tooth comb. Anyway its not like I'm drawing up a cv for an executive position in Microsoft or anything its just an internet forum, so try to focus on the point rather than the spelling, theres a good lad.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/09/2011 11:31:23    1024541

The irish language has to be kept alive.
I no martyr myself as my irish is poor but the more Gaelscoils open the better. We have to keep some heritage beside being known as drunken apes all over the world

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 01/09/2011 12:05:32    1024581

I'm sorry if my spelling gets to you goodfella but to be fair a lot of my posts are pretty rushed and I don't have time to go over them with a fine tooth comb. Anyway its not like I'm drawing up a cv for an executive position in Microsoft or anything its just an internet forum, so try to focus on the point rather than the spelling, theres a good lad.

We all make spelling mistakes, myself included. However if I had the cheek to call other posters thick I would at least have the gumption to check my post for errors before posting. Anyways back to your 'point' ......... not one person who has spoken in favour of a Gaelscoil on this thread has in anyway intimated that English isnt the language largely spoken in Ireland nowadays. You therefore were calling people thick for a point they had not made, now who is thick again.....?

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 01/09/2011 12:15:40    1024597

How do you say a Pint of Guinness is Irish as I was asked once by an 60 year old American tourist wearing white trainers and a huge Nikon Camera hanging around his neck , I replied "Gissa a pint of the Black stuff Seamus your man here's payin"

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 01/09/2011 12:59:52    1024648

Htaem
County: Meath
Posts: 2894

1023915 I see you obviously don't share my opinion of the Irish language omaghredhand which is fair enough, but I think it shows a real lack of class and character to have a go at me instead of my opinion, especially seen as how it was a genuine one. Now I haven't bothered going over my previous main comment so why don't you go ahead and correct all the mistakes I made in it omaghredhead and in this one aswell if you have the time, it would be much appreciated, cheers.

No what you said was that Gaelscoileanna are a waste of money that forcing you to learn Irish impinged on your ability to learn it. I was merely highlighting the fact that your use of English was quite poor in that post. It's a bit like what Goodfella was saying to you about callling people thick and then making errors in spelling and the like yourself. Your post was quite openly agressive and essentially you are suggesting removing the right to be educated in your own language, albeit it is now the nations second spoken language. The continual development of Gaeilscoileanna in the North who are out performing English speaking schools in both Maths and English would indicate that the problem is the system not the language

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 01/09/2011 13:29:32    1024677

Why else would you teach a child through Irish unless you wanted them to consider it to be their first language? By the way I want to make it clear aswell that I don't have a problem with the language being thought but only up until students finish primary school, then it should be optional. I also want to make it clear that I don't honestly care if people want to send their children to gaelscoils, I just think they're totally pointless and I would also sincerely hope that these schools aren't publically run.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/09/2011 15:53:54    1024837

Htaem

It's not like you to ridicule things you don't understand

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 01/09/2011 16:01:20    1024850

Of course its like me ochonlir, sure I'm ridiculing Irish and I don't understand the language.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/09/2011 16:39:09    1024907

Why else would you teach a child through Irish unless you wanted them to consider it to be their first language?

Have you actually read the previous posts on this thread? People have already highlighted the educational benefits of children being bi-lingual. You seem to have a pre-conception of what a Gaelscoil is and cant see beyond that.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 01/09/2011 16:41:11    1024908

Did you not read my posts goodfella, I said I don't have a problem with children learning Irish in primary school but I just don't see the point in an all Irish school. Now I'm well aware that being bilingual is a huge benefit to children (its a huge benefit to anybody) but what bloody use is knowing Irish as opposed to knowing Spanish, french or german etc etc? All I'm saying is it doesn't serve a useful purpose and so should be shouldn't be given any serious priority.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/09/2011 16:59:17    1024924

Htaem
County: Meath
Posts: 2898

1024476
Jaysus some people obviously love their gaelscoils, pity they can't get it in to their thick skulls that we speak English these days, it is infact or first language now.......deal with it.

Tóg go bog é.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 01/09/2011 17:17:45    1024955

Before considering the rights or wrongs of Gaelscoileanna - One needs to consider the real function that they serve in a lot of towns and cities in the South
Firstly I'm all for national identity and peoples right to learn and speak Irish as a matter of principal. And I'm also strongly in favour of the preservation of the Gaeltacht with Irish as a primary language in Gaeltacht schools.

But the reality of it is that in many urban areas Gaelscoileanna are being used by parents and school boards as a means of creating a social divide within the primary education system with the main motive being one of social status rather that anything to do with national or cultural identity.

John and Mary are a couple in their mid thirties living in Ratoath/Leixlip/Drogheda/Johnstown etc etc both with mid level professional jobs. They like to think of themselves as "upwardly mobile" and have worked hard to live in the "right area" be members of the "right clubs" etc. All their spare money is used to ensure that their two young children Killian And Blathín have piano lessons, gymnastics classes, underage rugby trips, etc.

Now the main local primary school in the centre of town has expanded by about 300% over the last twenty years with an diverse mix of families from the local town and council estates, immigrants from Eastern Europe and Africa, children from a travelling community background living in the halt just outside the town, Local families living in private housing in established suburbs of the town and Families like John and Mary who moved to the new private housing developments in more recent years. Mary gets chatting to a few people when she drops the kids at the crèche in the morning and also asks some of the neighbours what do they do.

One neighbour tells her that her daughter Sorcha is at the Gaelscoil and that she got asked to a Birthday party last week at the local doctors house. Mary also knows that the little girl across the road is at the town school and at that girls birthday party sees a Hiace pull up with some of the guests.

Now Neither Mary or John give a flying toss about the Irish language
But - Where do Mary and John decide to send the Kids to school

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 01/09/2011 18:21:51    1025020

MesAmis

Tóg go bog é.


Relax?..........thats an actual question not an 'oh you want me to relax do you, well let me tell you something MesAmis!!!'

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/09/2011 18:50:12    1025047

ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 3831

There is more diversity in Gaeilscoileanna than you're making out. I can only speak from my experiences teaching in schools in Dublin but I've been in Gaeilscoileanna with more ethnic diversity than English medium schools also and vice versa.

A lot of Gaeilscoileanna in less affluent areas also, Tallaght, Ballymun and Clondalkin all have 2. Gaeilscoileanna in Cabra, Finglas and Inchicore as examples too.

Gaeilscoileanna are less ethnically diverse than some English medium schools though but this is starting to change somewhat. In my own school there is marked difference in the ethnic diversity of the children in the junior classes as opposed to the senior end of the school.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 01/09/2011 19:55:53    1025092

01/09/2011 19:55:53
MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 3682

1025092 ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 3831

There is more diversity in Gaeilscoileanna than you're making out. I can only speak from my experiences teaching in schools in Dublin but I've been in Gaeilscoileanna with more ethnic diversity than English medium schools also and vice versa.

A lot of Gaeilscoileanna in less affluent areas also, Tallaght, Ballymun and Clondalkin all have 2. Gaeilscoileanna in Cabra, Finglas and Inchicore as examples too.

Gaeilscoileanna are less ethnically diverse than some English medium schools though but this is starting to change somewhat. In my own school there is marked difference in the ethnic diversity of the children in the junior classes as opposed to the senior end of the school
____________

I'm not speaking from first hand experience just observation so accept your view on it.
Though I could see a scenario in ten or twenty years time where we end up with state schools and "irish" or "church" schools. Like in the UK where you have Catholic primary schools where people move house just to get into the cathcment area - And its nothing to do with love of Religion. The "irish" schools end up being possibly part state funded and part "parents contribution" and we end up with a two tier Primary system just like in the UK where if you are in a pure state funded school you are pretty much goosed for life. One of the good things we do have in this country is an equitable schools system up to Leaving cert. I do see Gaelscoils as a possible area for future division especially of the Goverment squeeze public pay and teacher ratios. Well off people will want a better stanard and will pay extra for it.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 01/09/2011 20:35:02    1025123