Duckegg
County: Meath
Posts: 31

1002568
How about a distance that a handpass has to go? a bit like with a kick out
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haha yeah the refs would love that one. Bit like frees having to go at least 13 metres aint it??? Cos that isnt hard to judge

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1430 - 03/08/2011 16:36:43    1002625

It's not something I heard about and went 'yea' or 'nay' straightaway; initially (and instinctively) thought no. The more I thought it through the more it made sense to me.

It's based on the following assumptions -
- (1) The game is being ruined by the over-use of handpass - its like outdoor basketball (Donegal !! Jeez, unwatchable) - something has to be done
- (2) The PRIMARY means and most effective means for progressing up the pitch should be the kick not the handpass (which is a thinly veiled throw half the time!)
- therefore (3) The use of the handpass needs to be curtailed for the good of the game

If you don't agree with any of the above then it's a different argument. I believe curtailing the handpass returns the game to a better and more skilful spectacle. Mine is one suggestion, I'd be open to other suggestions - to go through the ones of this thread:

Pinkie - "Pass, then Kick" - Yep, could work, not as severe as my suggestion but has merits
"Disallow hand-passed scores - I'd be all in favour
OffalyBigBalls - "2 or 3 lines of defence" - What do we have now?!! How do you attack then - can't handpass your way out of defence any more. Think it through if you were coaching a team and these rules were in place, how would you go about it - attack and defence? Might be an interesting exercise
Possom - "One on one can pass to spare man" - Kick to spare man? Score yourself?
Benjjy - "Mass defence" - As per OffalyBigBalls
PudderstheCat - "prefer to ban backward handpasses" - Yep not a bad idea - still has the effect of making progress up the field via handpass harder - would definitely be an improvement and force team to kick more. Again, worth considering and thought through. Might actually be better - but i have a couple of issues with it
FootballFirst - Ehmm, Football is NOT a possession game primarily. The point would be NOT to kick aimlessly.
"Goalkeepers cant handpass" - GOOD.
Many - "13-a-side" - bit off the topic. Don't agree but many do. I'd concentrate on fixing the handpass first and then if it didn't work look mat 13-a-side. Not sure would it reduce the use of handpass

I think what I'm getting at is - how do we curtail the handpass so ist in teams interest to play the long kicked ball more - returning to the game that the contest for a ball brings - like hurling has.

Solo Run (None) - Posts: 316 - 03/08/2011 17:32:39    1002695

Seriously, what you are suggesting is rugby without the rule that you cannot be offside from a kick. Teams would get a players either side and handpass across and run with the ball. Defenses would still be packed because if you cannot handpass forward then all they have to do is all stay in the 45 and force you to shoot because you cant kick a ball into a packed defense unless its deadly accurate. Then when they turn the ball over they have plenty of support to still handpass their way out.

As for the rule you cannot handpass backwards? The argument for that ends with the great skill of winning the ball in front of your marker and laying it off to a man coming in at pace. There is no way you can get rid of that.

13 a side? Less players doesnt increase the skill of a game, it decreases it. Take for example 7s rugby. Its all about fitness, pace and power....not so much skill. Have you ever played 4 a side on a 6 a side pitch? You just have to be fit and fast and you're flying. You can overcome packed defenses by moving the ball quickly and good teamwork

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1430 - 03/08/2011 17:55:49    1002729

Disallowing fisted points has its merits but I would worry about its consequences for attackers.

Defenders would know they can show forwards the outside because they cant fist a point and it would leave it very hard to get a shot off by turning back inside

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1430 - 03/08/2011 17:59:46    1002736

id like to introduce a rule where you must have 6 outfield players per team in each half at one time. it would end the blanket defence and make teams play attacking football. easy to enforce also

miketyson (Limerick) - Posts: 2748 - 03/08/2011 18:10:28    1002744

In Aussie Rules, a hand pass has to go a certain distance and their refs seem to manage grand

Duckegg (Meath) - Posts: 66 - 03/08/2011 18:16:20    1002751

Over 1.5 million people will attend GAA Championship games this year, mostly in Football. We have a great game that is constantly evolving - can we just leave the thing alone? As per the man on man contests, just ask any intercounty footballer and he will tell you they still exist !
Also why do people not appreciate short handpassing - I can be beautiful to watch at times - look at Xavi, Inesta and Messi with Barca, short crisp passing as you patiently awaiting the moment to unlock a defence, however high up the field it is?

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 03/08/2011 18:23:43    1002763

@Benjjy - we have massed defences now. Think about this, you bring everyone back and win the ball, then what?? Massed defence doesn't work unless you solo out - too dangerous - you need to have players well-positioned to relieve the defense - forced to kick, i.e no point in "bunching" players - game spreads out. (By the way, I'm not hung-up on this - but I am hung-up on the constant hand-passing - anything that solves this blight is fine with me).


@sportsfan14 - the game from most of the people I talk to is not ok. The handpass is over-used, and is not good to watch at all - very little skill to it. Like I said - at times its like watching field basketball.

Solo Run (None) - Posts: 316 - 03/08/2011 18:40:03    1002777

Officials are already messing up calls. Changing the handpass is just going to make it even more difficult. Maybe use a rule that the ball has to travel a certain distance from a handpass?

Armaghgeddon (Armagh) - Posts: 539 - 03/08/2011 19:44:47    1002829

CAN I JUST CLARIFY with the owner of this thread. that what you meant was "pass forward". Are you sure you didn't mean "pass backward" because that would make more sence.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5522 - 05/08/2011 09:02:17    1003898

miketyson
This idea is ridiculous. That would mean that only 3 players can ever join an attack and 2 can only join the defence. Id hate to be doing midfield with your rules, they would be knackered while other men will just be standing about for large portions of the game. Also the marking would be all over the place with men bursting forward while their man can't follow him cause there may only be 5 teammates in the other half then. How the hell could this improve our game??

thehallion (Tyrone) - Posts: 63 - 05/08/2011 11:04:27    1003984

benjjy there was a secondary school from your kneck of the woods, St. Micheals I think, who actually entered the Young Scientists competition with a statiscal appraisal of 13-a-side gaelic football. Their results demonstrated that the 13-a-side game was not only better appreciated by spectators but it was also higher-scoring with less fouls marring the contest.

Amazing how kids can see things that seasoned GAA 'experts' just won't bring themselves to admit. We will see 13-a-side intercounty football with the next ten years, mark my words. There's a growing body of officials and coaches who support this move.

Ollie99 (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 06/08/2011 17:12:27    1005083

Unless someone comes up with a fairly good proposal re the hand pass there will be no change. Other sports restrict movement i.e. basketball re not allowing a player take more than one step without bouncing the ball. Indeed gaelic football restricts the bounce/hop, no reason why it cannot restrict the hand pass. But to restrict any play it has to be to enhance the game rather than making it even more messy. Personally I cannot see how you can remove the hand pass from the game.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 06/08/2011 21:36:42    1005307

Just a suggestion .... if we can have a rule that prevents players from hopping the ball twice why not have a go at doin the same with the hand pass ..... the ball can't be passed with the hand again until it has been kicked and for what it's worth i think we need to get rid of the small square completely it serves no positive purpose in my opinion and kickouts are'nt even taken from the edge of it anymore!!!!

DFB (Louth) - Posts: 51 - 07/08/2011 10:56:43    1005429

@s goldrick

To clarify, I did mean ban the forward handpass. A previous poster, like you, suggested banning the backward pass as being a better option - and thats what I thought when I first discussed it.

However the logic is as follows - if handpassing forward is still a legal means of moving forward then it will be continued to be over-used and there would be little change in what we now see (endure?) - outdoor basketball.

If the forward handpass was made illegal then kicking would be primary means of moving forward (or a backwards handpass to a forward running player). My point being it would become more like hurling where the longer ball would be the norm.

The problems mass defences would have is that it would be harder to play the ball out of defence in a possession-type style - you are forced to have players up the field who you can kick balls out of defence. Again more like hurling - best form of defence would be attack.

Solo Run (None) - Posts: 316 - 07/08/2011 18:22:50    1005804

that would be one of the most pointless ideas ever. if you banned the forward pass, the referee would be the centre of controversary even more than they are now. very bad idea

john.no1 (Sligo) - Posts: 470 - 07/08/2011 18:43:55    1005824

Ah shtop...... My football career would be over if the handpass rule went :( :( ..... The game be alot messier aswell.... Linesmen would be doing overtime :P

samfighter98 (Galway) - Posts: 8 - 07/08/2011 19:13:29    1005855

Packed defences have been around for a long time. Even the great Kerry team in the 80s played a packed defence (watch All Ireland Gold on TG4, I wish Pat Spillane would). They can be unlocked with the right players. I'm a supporter of the handpass, catching the ball from a kickout, give a handpass off the shoulder to an onrushing attacked, couple of quick handpasses and tap it over, can be just as exciting as long balls. Get rid of the handpass and we will end up with just Hail Marys into the full forward line. Will destroy the game.

laoistownie (Laois) - Posts: 409 - 08/08/2011 20:11:00    1006916

The four-hand-passes-then-a-kick rule worked well in international rules. I noticed the ball went from end to end a lot fast too (maybe because of the higher freshness and fitness levels). Hard for one ref to keep up tho!

Count_Awesome (Kildare) - Posts: 736 - 08/08/2011 20:18:52    1006921

I'd agree with limiting the hand pass. I'm tempted to say ban it all together but I'm not sure how workable that is. There was a time where the ball could be hand passed into the net for a goal but that was banned. I don't think any score should be able to come from a hand pass.
On limiting the hand pass, as I suggest, could it be banned altogether? The only other option is that a team cannot have successive hand passes. Player's themselves are not allowed to hop the ball consecutively. Why not introduce a team rule of a team not being able to hand pass consecutively. Kick and catch has always been a part of Gaelic Football. The rules need to be tweaked to keep that as an integral part of the game. Hurlers don't mess around much with hand-passes, it's a strength of that game that they don't.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8945 - 09/10/2011 12:19:36    1048955