Kenjg80
thanks for that and I understand that WUM can be infuriating at times. They deserve our pity if that's how they get their kicks rather than being able to enjoy the greatest game in the world. Thankfully you won't meet BBilly or the likes in the square in Thurles on Sunday.

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 22/07/2011 16:14:28    992223

I read Casey O'Brien's comments and it's hard not to agree with him. It must be so frustrating for Wicklow after all the progress they
made.

But ban is right, hurling needs to be developed at underage level first and foremost. That has to be the number one priority.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 22/07/2011 17:33:40    992292

Wicklow have won promotions back to back. They deserve their crack at Division 2. That was what was on offer at the start of the season. That's what they attain. They met the challenge put before them. You can't say there's promotion on offer and then backtrack on it.

Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1145 - 22/07/2011 17:46:35    992307

Pinkie

It might actually work out in Carlow's favour if the top team in division two automatically replaced the bottom team in division 1 B. They'd then potentially get 5 quality league matches each year (assuming they won div 2). You wait and see though, there'll probably be a play off scenario factored in, to further safe guard the top twelve. The same argument would apply to Carlow here. We'll effectivley be playing third tier teams all year and then be landed with a one off play off match 6 days after the final round of the league, on a Saturday night somewhere. The likes of Colm Bonnar constantly complaining has a lot to answer for. Carlow licked Wexford a year or two ago in the league, and it was suddenly all the systems fault. Division 2 hurling dosent seem to have affected Limerick too badly?

If a change to the format is being brought in it should be done after the forthcoming league. Carlow lost any amount of players from the year before and were effectivley in transition with U21's. It's a nonsense deciding who goes where based on last years end of league standings. There was dead rubber games all over the place in the last few rounds.

Elitest indeed.

Passer_By (Carlow) - Posts: 537 - 22/07/2011 20:30:47    992480

I've said it before: by all means tweak the league but leave the divisions alone. However, Westmeath will be too strong for Div 3A but that's their own issue, just as Clare & Offaly have to deal with being in Div 2. Too many people just jump on every complaining bandwagon & before we know it a lot of good work is undone coz someone's nose was put out. If we can get Div 2 teams playing at a higher standard it will do wonders for promoting the sport nationwide & it won't be such a "death sentence" when a county is relegated from Div 1.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 22/07/2011 20:51:14    992500

If the league is to be revamped, both 1A and 1B probably should be at the same level with the top 2 in each going into the semi-finals. Division 2 will then remain as the second tier. The bottom team in each group should then contest a relegation final. For the system to work, the GAA better not go down the road of trying to bring in a play-off between the 12th team from division one and division two winner. Based on last year, if it's Antrim or Laois being relegated, they better be able to take it on the chin without fresh calls for a revamp because the wrong team might get relegated. Though those calls would probably only happen if Laois and Antrim pull off a shock and avoid the drop. Can ye imagine the scramble then to change the rules once again?!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9036 - 04/08/2011 20:30:09    1003759

There used to be a time that you could actually win the league from division 2, the top 2 sides in division 2 played off a quarter final V 3rd & 4th in the top flight, or something like that.

It would be nice if they just left it in the same format for a few years.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6510 - 05/08/2011 10:26:51    1003956

Whether they go top 6/bottom 6 or even split between 1A and 1B, teams in each should start off with a chance of winning the division 1 title. If it is top 6/bottom 6, at the very least, the top team in 1B should join the top 3 of 1A in the semi-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9036 - 05/08/2011 10:47:36    1003968

Passer_By

You seem to think that winning 1 league game in years makes you world beaters? Carlow people are quick to point to one victory - what about all the other games over the years? I think it's great that Carlow are making progress but quit banging on about one game you won of any significance in about 20 years.

You should also think Carlow will benefit more than most from this new system, they will benefit more than the current system because they will not get promotion to division 1 any time soon as long as there are 2 counties like Clare, Offaly, etc in division 2. So rather than having 2 competitive games in 1 year, they will get 5. The new system will give them and everyone in division 2 a chance to do their talking on the hurling field and get up to play division 1 hurling. You say you cant judge on last year just because there were dead rubber games - yes there were but that is exactly what the GAA are trying to get rid of by this format change.

legendzxix is right - it should be 1A and 1B, with top 6 from division 1 drawn out and divided between 2 divisions, with the rest of the teams drawn at random. Keep top counties in both.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 05/08/2011 12:10:59    1004071

To shuffle the teams then between divisions 1A and 1B every year, teams 2nd, 4th and 6th(or promoted team) should switch from 1A to 1B and vice-versa. This way each team will have three different opponents in their group every year and mix it up a bit.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9036 - 05/08/2011 12:45:03    1004109

I'm starting to come around to the idea of the new proposed structure. While it might be tough luck on a few counties who were promoted it probably is for the best. However, I'd like to see Wicklow & Westmeath both incorpoarted into the new Division 2. The top 3 teams in Div 1A & the top team in 1B could perhaps make up the Div1 semis.

"legendzxix is right - it should be 1A and 1B, with top 6 from division 1 drawn out and divided between 2 divisions, with the rest of the teams drawn at random. Keep top counties in both."

That's the way it used to be & there were some very bad beatings so I have to disagree.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 05/08/2011 13:28:33    1004149

If teams are afraid of a beating they should keep the league as it is. Division One is either the top tier or not. Division Two is either the second tier or not. Antrim and Laois would welcome the opportunity to play bigger teams as should any other county gaining promotion.

If it is top 6 and bottom 6 though, how will promotion/relegation work between 1A and 1B? I'm just looking for info on how it's going to be structure really as opposed to how I think it should be.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9036 - 05/08/2011 14:16:19    1004208

I presume the exact workings of the proposals have yet to be finalised.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 05/08/2011 14:30:27    1004223

legendzxix I dont think the promotion and relegation has been sorted as yet, but knowing the GAA they will probably make a hash of it! If they do go down the road of a division 1 and 2 with the top counties in division 1 it will only result in an even bigger gap developing between KK, Tipp and the likes of Wexford and Clare.
I dont think keeper7 that there would be that many bad beatings. From Wexford's point of view, we expected a bad beating from Tipp this year but instead got a draw there to stay in division 1. Also I doubt you'll ever come up with a system where there wont be the occasional bad beating wont occur.
You are right that the likes of Wicklow should be promoted to division 2 though, start the league a week earlier if necessary to incorporate them.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 05/08/2011 14:52:15    1004256

The problem is Carlow can compete with Wexford & Wexford can compete with Tipp....in the League....but by the time championship comes around that's no longer the case, the a huge gulf in class. That's strength in-depth within the county itself coming to the fore through having a strong club scene. No League structure is going to easily overcome this issue.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 05/08/2011 15:54:04    1004331

As per an article in the Indo today, there are 3 options for the Allianz Hurling League 2012

Option 1 -- (National Hurling Development Work Group)

Divide Division 1 into 1A and 1B, made up of six teams each, based on where they finished in this year's league. Apply a similar split in Division 2 (six in 2A and 2B). That takes care of 24 counties, leaving the remaining nine (assuming Cavan enter) to compete in a special group (Tain Division).

Top two divisions would look as follows:

1A: Kilkenny, Dublin, Waterford, Tipperary, Galway, Cork.

1B: Wexford, Offaly, Limerick, Clare, Laois, Antrim.

2A: Down, Carlow, Kerry, Westmeath, Wicklow, Derry.

2B: London, Kildare, Meath, Armagh, Mayo, Roscommon.

Five games in each division. Top two in 1A to play for title (outright); top two in 1B, 2A, 2B to play-off for promotion. Bottom two in each division play in relegation play-off. Tain division (bottom nine) will dovetail with a club hurling league.

Option 2 -- (Central Competitions Control Committee)

Divisions 1 and 2 would be comprised of the same counties as in Option 1; similarly for the bottom group.

However, CCCC are proposing a different knockout system. The top two counties in 1A would go directly to semi-finals, where they would be guaranteed home advantage. They would be joined by the winners of two quarter-finals, featuring third 1A v 2nd 1B and fourth 1A v top 1B.

Bottom team in 1A to be relegated and replaced by top team in 1B. Bottom 1B would play off against winners 2A (to be decided on a final) to settle relegation/promotion. A similar promotion/relegation system to apply between 2A and 2B.

Option 3 (GAA Management Committee)

Divide the top 24 into three divisions as decided by placings this year.

Division 1: Kilkenny, Dublin, Waterford, Tipperary, Galway, Cork, Wexford, Limerick.

Division 2: Offaly, Clare, Laois, Antrim, Down, Carlow, Kerry, Wicklow.

Division 3: Westmeath, Derry, London, Kildare, Meath, Armagh, Mayo, Roscommon.

Bottom eight/nine to play in Tain Division, which would be part of a club hurling league.

The top four in Divisions 1, 2, 3, to play semi-finals. Bottom two in each division relegated and replaced by finalists from the division immediately below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option 3 would get my vote. Semi-finals in each division with the two finalists being promoted and bottom two in each division being relegated. It opens things up a bit like the football league where it already is two up and two down.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9036 - 11/08/2011 09:04:45    1008805

why are Cork in Div 1a?

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 879 - 11/08/2011 09:46:48    1008824

Clubgaa
County: Limerick
Posts: 450

1008824
why are Cork in Div 1a?

They finished in the top 6 in divisionone last year which will qualify then for 1A.

My view on Option 1: It'd be my second preference. I don't see why the bottom two should play-off, the bottom team should be the team to be relegated.

My view on Option 2: I like the knock-out system. I don't like the idea of the division 2A winner having to play the bottom team from division 1B in a play-off. It's ring fencing and restrictiveness of the highest order.

My view on Option 3: I think it's the best option. Have 3 divisions with 8 in each. Two will go up and down between the divisions and the semi-finals will give a lot of teams something to play for. The like of Laois, Antrim and Carlow would benefit from playing in a division 2 semi-final against Offaly and Clare. The division 2 finalists will benefit by being promoted.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9036 - 11/08/2011 12:34:41    1008949