Patrique your last lengthly post was quite interesting albeit I disagree with it to some extent. I dont believe that the road to reunification is as planned out as you say. The USA would like to see it happen and some elements of the British govt are probably now willing to see it happen but not all. As for the DUP, perhaps their leadership at a certain level do see the writing on the wall but there is no way the vast majority of their party see reunification as enivatble and are seeking to work a good deal for themselves. This might happen in time but it certainly isnt the case at present. As for Berry being a natural successor, I dont know ho you came up with that one.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 13/07/2011 09:35:56    982799

13/07/2011 09:35:56
Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 1226

982799
Patrique your last lengthly post was quite interesting albeit I disagree with it to some extent. I dont believe that the road to reunification is as planned out as you say. The USA would like to see it happen and some elements of the British govt are probably now willing to see it happen but not all. As for the DUP, perhaps their leadership at a certain level do see the writing on the wall but there is no way the vast majority of their party see reunification as enivatble and are seeking to work a good deal for themselves. This might happen in time but it certainly isnt the case at present. As for Berry being a natural successor, I dont know ho you came up with that one.



A few things here of interest.

" elements of the British govt are probably now willing to see it happen"


I think it was 1965 when Harold Wilson the prime minister appeared on TV saying the only way forward in N.Ireland was a United country. In 1970 the first Secretary for State for the North Willie Whitelaw, in his first speech said a United Ireland was the only solution. Now I do know that in 1970 Catholics were being treated like Romanian orphans, holidays here there and everywhere, B Specials disbanded, RUC disarmed, one man one vote granted, and the NIHE created to allocate housing in the future, but all the same it was fairly dramatic. Yes "Sunny" Jim Callaghan had arrived in Belfast the year before and said exactl the same thing but he was not the "official" minister of state.

Now I concede that britain had no chance of forcing a united Ireland on the country then, but that was their intention. Still is, they thought they had solved the irish question for good in 1921. Foolish I know.

Paul Berry spoke like Ian, ranted like Ian "NEVER" NOT an INCH and all that. Extremely popular with what would have been that parties mainstream voters at the time. However in England if you carry out a survey in those days about N.Ireland the ONLY people anyone had heard of where Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams. They could not distinguish between them, many thought Ian was IRA, but they said "those two cause all the trouble".

So.....the decision was taken that those two would have to take a back seat, Ian Junior had to go as well due to his name, and Berry was rejected because he was too extreme. Peter could play the moderate. Unfortunately Peter could not pull it off so the only man who would not be called a "Lundy", Big Ian, had to brought back for one year to sign the final agreement.

The most amazing thing here is that while Adams had to step back McGuinness due to his lower profile was acceptable and did a wonderful job, astounding me and many others.

All to be found in Government papers in about 30 years........

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/07/2011 15:47:47    983315

All to be found in Government papers in about 30 years........

I suspect you're right in so far all sorts of interesting stuff will be revealed. However I suspect there is alot more 'Hawks vs Doves' debate within the British establishment in respect of allowing/resisting reunification than you maybe acknowledge or appreciate.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 13/07/2011 16:26:25    983381

GOODFELLA.
thats what bewilders me and then get the conspiracy theorists out , when decisions like marches are allowed knowing right well trouble will escalate , tensions will mount and eventually lead to murders , which i am afraid to say is only a matter of time , then the HAWKS that you mention that do not want peace because of the massive budget that will be cut to their buddies within MI5 , and other security divisions , then all sides will be back on the streets and the war will resume .. the hawks will be happy for continued divide and rule ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/07/2011 16:41:35    983416

ta32 I would have classified you as a hawk no? surely thats a fair comment?

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 13/07/2011 17:06:31    983460

horse.
wise up

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/07/2011 17:16:14    983471

horse.
on a more serious note , can you explain or see the logic behind some of the decisions taken by the parades commision and the actions of the P.S.N.I . TO MOUNT MASSIVE ARRESTS ONLY .on the nationalist side , apologise to loyalistsfor trying to hold the province to a standstill , and let them and their loyalists thugs march through were they are clearly not wanted , give me a reason behind their decision please , and also the way they attacked catholics and their homes on the short strand , and you think they will be no repurcussions of all of this , maybe call the residents of ardoyne and the short strand hawks , would that be easy on your good self .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/07/2011 17:22:15    983483

13/07/2011 16:41:35
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 4371

983416
GOODFELLA.
thats what bewilders me and then get the conspiracy theorists out , when decisions like marches are allowed knowing right well trouble will escalate , tensions will mount and eventually lead to murders




HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!! EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!!!


100% correct.

Now move it on SLIGHTLY.....if the marches are NOT allowed we have trouble in east Belfast and you are moaning about the Short Strand.

So...what do we do?

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/07/2011 18:32:45    983585

patrique.
and you would never moan about the short strand or the west or ardoyne , or strabane , or derry , why do you think tensions have erupted across nationalist areas we are close to the scale of drumcree. the p.s.n.i have changed allright , just the name .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 13/07/2011 20:06:14    983656

13/07/2011 17:22:15
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 4373

983483
horse.
on a more serious note , can you explain or see the logic behind some of the decisions taken by the parades commision and the actions of the P.S.N.I . TO MOUNT MASSIVE ARRESTS ONLY .on the nationalist side , apologise to loyalistsfor trying to hold the province to a standstill , and let them and their loyalists thugs march through were they are clearly not wanted , give me a reason behind their decision please , and also the way they attacked catholics and their homes on the short strand , and you think they will be no repurcussions of all of this , maybe call the residents of ardoyne and the short strand hawks , would that be easy on your good self .



I can give you an explanation. Sinn Fein government.

In the great days of stormont under Brookeborough and Craigavon it would never have happened.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/07/2011 21:02:02    983720

/07/2011 20:06:14
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 4374

983656
patrique.
and you would never moan about the short strand or the west or ardoyne , or strabane , or derry , why do you think tensions have erupted across nationalist areas we are close to the scale of drumcree. the p.s.n.i have changed allright , just the name .



I have a solution. Cut the water supply to Ardoyne, bulldoze three quarters of the buildings, carpet bomb it twice a week, and simply call it Palestine.

At least then you will be a cheerleader instead of talking nonsense.

Last week you were SCREAMING "why did the police not use flame throwers". This week they did, probably reacting to your post, and you are still not happy?

Some people.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 13/07/2011 22:00:48    983808

right and wrong still based on religions and politics... one collective yawn for our northern posters. ive sad it before if a nationalist found a plaster they would cut themselves to say that the british blah blah blah blah done it to them and they are a victim- in 800 years we never bought into the propaganda does anyone this we will now? the north is for laughing at nothing more nothing less. its britians mess not ours

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 14/07/2011 10:24:13    983867

Horse
County: Laois
Posts: 628

983460 ta32 I would have classified you as a hawk no? surely thats a fair comment?

How dare you.. when Ta gets tooled up he is a combination of eagle, panther, croc and viper. The ultimate defender.

Oscar, Bingo, Tiddlywinks, Henhouse... Over

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 14/07/2011 12:20:22    984017

Keep it up dhorse, I know it's easy being a waster but you do it so well:)

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 14/07/2011 12:47:31    984052

seanie_boy.
ha ha lol , here listen tell the horse to put the kettle on ;D.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 14/07/2011 20:33:41    984734

I miss Dell : ((((((((((((((((

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 14/07/2011 21:14:14    984783

14/07/2011 20:33:41
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 4375

984734
seanie_boy.
ha ha lol , here listen tell the horse to put the kettle on ;D.



Ta, the very man. You mentioned "tension in Derry".

Who was marching at Free Derry Corner? That is where the "trouble" was.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 14/07/2011 21:45:09    984828

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 13599

984828 14/07/2011 20:33:41
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 4375

984734
seanie_boy.
ha ha lol , here listen tell the horse to put the kettle on ;D.



Ta, the very man. You mentioned "tension in Derry".

it was probably a dose of Pre Marching Tension

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 16/07/2011 12:14:02    986049

ya couldnt make it up lads, the nationalist community tries to dictate who is allowed walk on the streets in northern ireland, when they dont get their way they smash up their own community and then turn on the police who are trying to stop them rioting, and to cap it all off they blame the unionists community and the psni - as i said ya couldnt make it up. perhaps a mirror should be sent to all nationalist saying blame starts and ends here, i do wonder if there is even one nationalist with an ounce of common sense i really do- and at the end of the day with such stupidity on offer is it actually any wonder that the irish people just laugh at the north?? its safe to say that the nationalist community will attack anyone possible at any opportunity by whatever mean possible and that is very evident, its all the brits, the media, the irsh governments, the british governments, the oranage order, the psni, the west brits, the biased unionists, the uda, the uvf- i appologise if i have left any group out, but i think its safe to say the everying is the fault of someone else according to nationalists as they must always be the victim in any situstion as a starting point- after hundreds of years of propaganda have ye fooled anyone?

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 16/07/2011 16:59:18    986344

the DUP will be smiling today as they appear to be donegal supporters, i must get tips off them again they appear to know what they are ralking about as donegal accounted for londonderry with ease

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 18/07/2011 11:21:56    987721