09/07/2011 11:04:33
seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1986

978728
Patrique,I disagree with your interpretation of this exchange between us but I will be magnanimous here and say lets just drop it now.I might add that too often in our conflict that children have indeed suffered and I would never make light of such matters.I hope they do not have to suffer any more,that conflict is for the most part,a part of our troubled history.



That is more or less what I was attempting to say.

cheers.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 09/07/2011 14:49:28    978900

08/07/2011 21:27:58
Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 852

978660
patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 13446

978647
08/07/2011 16:59:22
Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 851


I wasnt talking in terms of the party, I mean that is your position on the constitutional question surrounding Northern Ireland. A unionist.


Indeed not. I am one of that rare dying breed in Ireland, a republican based on United Irishman ideals.

A republic for protestant, Catholic and dissenter as espoused by Theobald Wolfe tone, William Orr, and Henry Joy McCracken, all of whom were dissenters.

Alas in 2011 some posters on here would have these three herded into "protestant ghettos", "their own areas" I think one poster described it as, as it appears the republic is to be for Catholics only. Naturally, as I oppose sectarianism, I oppose such a scenario.

A republic for all, protestant, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, atheist.....that is what I seek. Not a very popular opinion these days but sure Tone and the others were not too popular in their day.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 09/07/2011 14:54:54    978904

But Pat............

Old Willie Mc Crea is never going to deliver that, so why vote for him?

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 09/07/2011 16:11:45    978980

09/07/2011 16:11:45
Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 855

978980
But Pat............

Old Willie Mc Crea is never going to deliver that, so why vote for him?



Willie would be in a United Ireland next week.

It is not the DUP who are holding things up..................they have nothing to lose.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 09/07/2011 17:54:50    979038

09/07/2011 16:11:45
Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 855

978980
But Pat............

Old Willie Mc Crea is never going to deliver that, so why vote for him?


By the way I have answered this a number of times.

Until N.Irelland embraces bread and butter iissues we are lost. So at the moment if you want something done, DUP and Sinn Fen are the people to deliver. It is not just a sectarian vote that has these parties ahead of the pack, they are on the ground doing things.

The Official Unionist and SDLP are still flag waving, without policies, so are doomed.

Now where I live only Willie or his Official Unionist opponent can win. In recent times that person was a self centred old fashionedbigot.

Willie is not that self centred and is a "political" bigot, to get votes. But he has been working with Sinn Fein since 1983 on Magherafelt council.

He may fool his hard line loyalists voters that he is indeed "hardline" but you should not let him fool you. Strangely enough just yesterday I saw a bit of Loyalist Graffiti denouncing Willie and the DUP as "Papist sell outs".

maybe they are catching on.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 09/07/2011 18:00:54    979041

Willie would be in a United Ireland next week.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Humour us Patrique,because I never would have thought that Willie Mc Crea was open to persuasion on the united Ireland issue.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 09/07/2011 21:15:50    979190

Willie would be in a United Ireland next week.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Humour us Patrique,because I never would have thought that Willie Mc Crea was open to persuasion on the united Ireland issue.

Seanie in Patrique's world the DUP cant wait for a United Ireland because they will form a coalition with Fianna Fail which will ensure they always have power. He also believes Sinn Fein are delaying reunification so that they can build a proper power base in the South and therefore not lose policitcal power when the country is united.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 11/07/2011 11:48:03    980508

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 1221

980508
Willie would be in a United Ireland next week.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Humour us Patrique,because I never would have thought that Willie Mc Crea was open to persuasion on the united Ireland issue.

Seanie in Patrique's world the DUP cant wait for a United Ireland because they will form a coalition with Fianna Fail which will ensure they always have power. He also believes Sinn Fein are delaying reunification so that they can build a proper power base in the South and therefore not lose policitcal power when the country is united.



Spot on.

Now in the real world Sinn Fein/DUP would be happy to share power forever in N.Ireland, but Britain want a United Ireland at any cost, and they are supported by the USA and Europe, all for financial reasons.

The DUP know this and like all politicians power is the name of the game.

So N.Ireland share with Sinn fein, united Ireland share with Fianna Fail.

What is the difference?

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 11/07/2011 16:12:48    981022

Spot on.

Now in the real world Sinn Fein/DUP would be happy to share power forever in N.Ireland, but Britain want a United Ireland at any cost, and they are supported by the USA and Europe, all for financial reasons.

The DUP know this and like all politicians power is the name of the game.

So N.Ireland share with Sinn fein, united Ireland share with Fianna Fail.

What is the difference?

Whilst I agree with you Sinn Fein are trying to build a stronger base in the South i'm afraid I cant agree that the DUP want to move to a power sharing arrangement with Fianna Fail. They'll resist a United Ireland til the bitter end and when it does happen they'd be more likely to try and cosy up to Fianna Gael I'd imagine. But who knows what way the political landscape will be in 10-15 years time.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 11/07/2011 16:29:52    981065

I can't buy that Patrique.You are telling us that Sinn Fein are unionist and the DUP are potential republicans.I also agree with Goodfella that the DUP would be more inclined to form an alliance with Fine Gael than with Fianna Fail.I do wonder how you come to such conclusions, and I'm not being sarcastic,but are these matters you may have conversed with Willie Mc Crea about? If so has he actually said something about DUP thinking on these matters? Genuinely curious to hear why you think the DUP want a United Ireland and Sinn Fein want to maintain the union with Britain.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/07/2011 17:53:06    981276

I too am curious at how you arrive at these conclusions patrique.

But let us not underestimate the huge effect of having the USA on your side. They just partitioned Sudan and gained self determination for the people of the southern part of that country. Perhaps they really are seeking Irish re-unification.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 11/07/2011 18:00:33    981299

11/07/2011 17:53:06
seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1998

981276
I can't buy that Patrique.You are telling us that Sinn Fein are unionist and the DUP are potential republicans.I also agree with Goodfella that the DUP would be more inclined to form an alliance with Fine Gael than with Fianna Fail.I do wonder how you come to such conclusions, and I'm not being sarcastic,but are these matters you may have conversed with Willie Mc Crea about? If so has he actually said something about DUP thinking on these matters? Genuinely curious to hear why you think the DUP want a United Ireland and Sinn Fein want to maintain the union with Britain.



Absolutely no idea what you are talking about, Sinn fein unionist and DUP nationalist???????? Are ye mad?

What I said was that political parties like POWER and are realistic. Remember when Saddam was our hero and ally? Then the next week he was not? These things happen all the time.

There has been a peace process in Ireland from around 1980 involving Britain, Brussels, USA, political parties here, and some of the paramilitaries here. These people met on a regulat basis, all carefully planned, lots of it very callous, but all aimed at a solution involving a DUP/Sinn Fein power sharing Governemnet at STORMONT.

Read that last sentence again. A DUP/Sinn Fein power sharing government at STORMONT!!!! Sure that is totally mad, nuts insane will nEVER happen.

Well, that is what everyone told me when I was writing about it back in 1996 for a publication called the Irish Globe, and otherpamphlets for pressure and interest groups.

But it happened.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 11/07/2011 21:37:34    981594

CONTINUATION of POST:


So being practical and liking power Sinn Fein and the DUP are perfectly happy AT THE MOMENT. Both know however that the entire peace process is aimed at a United Ireland. We all know this because Martin McGuinness, not to be confused with his friend and ally Willie McCrea, appeared many times on TV waving documents from the British government categorically stating that they were pushing for a united Ireland, whether anyone in Ireland wants one or not. Britain and the USA do. And the uSA tend to get their way on these things.

So knowing that the process is aimed at a united Ireland the first thing the DUP did was get rid of Paisley's "natural" successor, Paul Berry, because they were about to pretend to be moderate, and share power and be good guys. That way they might win friends and influence other callous politicians in the south.

In 2011 Sinn Fein do not have many friends or voters in the south or at least until the recession played into their hands and gave them more seats than the previously dreamed about. Sinn Fein have no intention of being in a Fianna Fail or Fianna gael dominated Ireland so needed to stall for time. Obviously the main players, Britain and USA n3eed to still go slowly as they are still some neanderthals on the Loyalist and Republican sides. we will always have those who would sooner fight for a united Ireland rather than be given one via a referendum.

Now I have been in political parties, and unions and pressure groups and dodgy organizations for 40 years. I also taught and lectured in Political Science and History. I was also a freelance journalist and member of the NUJ. You get to know people, and most of what I say is generally accepted.

That is why Sinn Fein still enjoy MASSIVE support in Belfast and such, because most people are in the loop and know they won. Country areas appear to be in the dark, and I am being serious here, especially in Tyrone. That could however be a hangover from Loughgall -----. Even Ta 32 agrees with me on that one.

So I am not saying that the DUP favour a United Ireland. I am saying they will be part of it, on the best possible terms for them, because Britain has told them that is the future.

Now you may find that incredible, but surely less incredible that Peter Robinson would be sharing power with Martin McGuinness. Think what you like about Willie McCrea in Nationalist eyes and then try to look at Martin through Unionist eyes!!!!!!!!!

See what I mean.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 11/07/2011 21:38:10    981596

Patrique after reading that I believe you are a cross between David Ervine and Eammon De Valera. Mercury like and metaphorical.The good stuff gets cancelled out by the smugness.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/07/2011 10:10:10    981723

12/07/2011 10:10:10
seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2002

981723
Patrique after reading that I believe you are a cross between David Ervine



That would normally be a compliment but seeing as how David learned all of his beliefs from us while he was inside, well that dilutes it.

And that is Smug.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 12/07/2011 16:29:58    982366

patrique.
loughall , clonoe , coagh , strabane , and , and . hmmm yes i agree ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 12/07/2011 17:25:23    982452

12/07/2011 17:25:23
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 4362

982452
patrique.
loughall , clonoe , coagh , strabane , and , and . hmmm yes i agree ?



I know you do.

When you stop imitating a 15 year old LVF thug you can be quite lucid.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 12/07/2011 17:34:02    982462

patrique.
i think you can understand i can form a opinion and relate to certain issues without imitating anyone thank you .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 12/07/2011 18:04:35    982500

Patrique, are you dellboypolecat?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 12/07/2011 21:52:22    982743

seeing as how David learned all of his beliefs from us while he was inside
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Ah now that is an interesting thing to say right there Patrique.Please elaborate and define just who is the "us" you refer to in this line.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 13/07/2011 09:20:32    982786