shouldn't this thread be called 'cooper v's P.Canavan or F.MaGuigan'? or someone like that who is actually a bit closer to coopers ability? Brogan doesnt even come close.

wishfulthinkin (Cavan) - Posts: 1737 - 22/08/2011 11:08:03    1016102

"But Brogan is a fantastic forward too. However one thing that I picked up on that Stekhli said yesterday. Brogan is 27, a year younger than Cooper. Why did it take him until 2007 to break into the Dublin senior setup? At the same age as when Brogan finally got his place on the Dublin senior team, Cooper had two All-Irelands and three AllStars."

He was quite simply overlooked by Pillar when he was fit, he had some bad injuries too, the Brogan family are cursed with cruciate and knee injuries. Last year was his second year of full championship football and he won POTY. That in itself is some achievement. Bernard has stacks of class and ability and when in full flight is unmarkable, but for me Gooch proved once again he is the most naturally gifted footballer around, the way he strokes the ball over the bar so naturally off left and right and that goal yesterday he had absoloutely no right to score.
Now some may laugh but Bernard isn't even the most naturally gifted footballer on the Dublin team that mantra falls to Diarmuid Connolly. What Bernard has is an acute awareness of where the posts are without even having to look and a great shot off both left and right. If he had of stayed injury free and got a good run earlier in his career he could've been as good as Gooch, but not now.

Kenjg80 (Dublin) - Posts: 228 - 22/08/2011 11:18:19    1016120

Bernard done his cruciate knee ligament when he was 18 it set him back a good few years. Surely you knew that loyal?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 22/08/2011 11:22:23    1016128

summerhillof69
County: Meath
Posts: 69

1016034 Gooch every time,not even a contest . and the fact gooch doesnt celebrate like a lunatic when scoring the 5th or 6th goal against Westmeath ;-)


Was interesting to see Gooch running arounf with both fists in the air when he scored his goal though. God help us if one of the Brogan's did that in front of the Hill. :)

Anyway, Bernard has a lot to do in terms of impressing as he has missed out on a lot of playing years due to injury. No doubting that he is in the same class as Gooch though. Gooch has a very low centre of gravity which is something that Bernard doesn't have but then again Bernard is better in the air and more physical. Both great players.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 22/08/2011 11:35:05    1016141

Look, Brogan is a class act. Best performer in the country by a country mile last year and deserves all the praise he will get.
Gooch is a master craftsman and has done it every year since 2002. Never won POTY but has 6 All Stars out of 9 years and he's only 28. Last year he was brilliant for us and was probably his best year. The best I've seen him play was in last years county final against stacks where he was simple a pleasure to watch. Breathtaking. He has missed out on All Starts when Kerry won All irelands in 2006 (1-2 in Final) and 2009 (0-6 in final) and then also missed out in 2003. Now that is consistency.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 22/08/2011 11:40:22    1016150

I have little time for this kerry team as a whole whenever they met a good team they were beaten well.However when you talk about gooch your are talking genius
here very few players have ever been blessed with his skill that hop he perfected sends defenders the wrong way always.Brogan can be classed like most really good inter county forwards i.e mattie forde bernard flynn etc etc, in that he,s brilliant but to a point then you go to the very special players which gooch is only second to canavan and the most important point is he is second best to anybody who remembers a young canavan.But gooch is a player seldom seen we,re lucky to have been able to watch him.

mickeylinden (Monaghan) - Posts: 587 - 22/08/2011 12:13:18    1016183

mickeylinden
County: Monaghan
Posts: 276

1016183 I have little time for this kerry team as a whole whenever they met a good team they were beaten well.However when you talk about gooch your are talking genius

Not a lot of good teams out there then Mickey by your estimation? Tyrone, Cork and Down is it? We all saw what happened each of them this year. Please don't go back as far as 2002 for heavens sake. That's 10 Seasons ago.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 22/08/2011 12:24:21    1016196

The Gooch. Brogan is a tremendous player but Gooch has far better "Qualities".
Brogan is selfish with the ball. He'll go for the wrong option a lot of the time and will try a hail mary.
The gooch will look at the options and give the ball to man in better position. Great trait. He has the talent and the desired mind set.
Different clas.
Brogan will never have that.

endofstory69 (Cork) - Posts: 97 - 22/08/2011 13:02:31    1016248

Brogan doesnt even come close to Cooper - its like trying to compare a Grand National horse and a Donkey

bigqueenie (Down) - Posts: 66 - 22/08/2011 13:29:26    1016279

Two top performers without doubt but Gooch is a bit special. Both players have a very high accuracy rate with both feet and Brogan probably scores more spectacular points but there is a reason for that. Gooch has a better appreciation of the game as a whole. Whereas Brigan will invariably have a shot, the Gooch will seek out a team mate in a better position or work the position for himself. He is a 100% score man in that unless the chance is too big to be ignored then he doesn't shoot. Yesterday's goal was brilliant, but I can't help but thinking that the defending was awful at the same time. The two covering men went across to mark players that were wide of the danger area instead of protecting the goal, but then maybe most men wouldn't have looked for a goal with a certain point available. Was there also a slight suspicion of the dreaded square ball for the initial ball in? However, Brogan should be given full credit for his offerings to football despite a wretched time with injuries from a very young age. Although I can be accused of bias, I hold the Gooch up there at the very top with Peter Canavan who I would consider the best footballer of modern times. Brogan hasn't reached that level yet but is certainly talented enough to do so

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 22/08/2011 13:31:10    1016282

RE bigqueenie
County: Down
Posts: 49

1016279 Brogan doesnt even come close to Cooper - its like trying to compare a Grand National horse and a Donkey

so brogan is a donkey now.

well up here in dublin we wouldn't trade that donkey for anyone

boyblue (Dublin) - Posts: 90 - 22/08/2011 13:37:55    1016291

The donkey's average is nearly 5 points a game in championship. He has over 100 points (109 I think) from 22 championship games.

I still think his best game for Dublin was in Omagh during the 2010 NFL when he scored 8 and setup countless. He had 3 different Tyrone backs marking him that day with Carlin, Gormley and McMahon on him at various stages. He was banging over points from crazy angles with left and right foot. Brilliant stuff.

Gooch and Brogan are both great players and would walk into any inter county team.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 22/08/2011 14:32:23    1016354

After watching Connelly against Tyrone I would put him ahead of BB but still along way behind Cooper and Canavan

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 22/08/2011 14:40:23    1016375

Ah joxer why are you bringing up tyrone again I'm sick of beating them all the time and sick of seeing Bernard roast there backs for fun.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 22/08/2011 14:40:41    1016377

there is no need to be rude bugqueenie if brogan is a donkey what does that make the likes of oconnor , doyle , coulter , meehan , shine etc , brogan has a lot of assets that gooch doesnt have .....hes much faster , stronger , better in the air , scores far more , doesnt have donaghy winning the ballf or him can you rememebr how bag the gooch was without donaghy handing him the ball in 2009 , hes a great player nonetheless , he rarely gets injured has been consistantly good since 2002 especially in the really important games , has a bad habit of diving though,brogan has also cemented his place as among the best players in recen times when he has really only had four full seasons the gooch has had far longer time in the public eye to grow his rep

stekhli (Dublin) - Posts: 3121 - 22/08/2011 15:17:59    1016446

Players will always be judged on what they win, You can be a sensational player but unless you win all irelands and all stars , you cant be considered the greatest. Out of the two players in question here....

Colm Cooper - 4 All Ireland titles , 6 all stars (Since he started playing inter-county football in 2002)

Bernard Brogan - 0 All Ireland titles , 1 All star (Since he started playing inter-county football in 2006)

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13655 - 22/08/2011 15:29:44    1016465

Yea the Gooch was real bad without Donaghy in 2009; he only scored 1-7 in the quarter final against Dublin and he took his time getting the first score.38 seconds.

Colm is a skillful intelligent and unselfish player. Bernard is also a joy to watch and deserved player of the year last year

kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1779 - 22/08/2011 15:51:10    1016493

The Gooch wins this for now.
Ask again in 5 years though....

OffalyBigBall (Offaly) - Posts: 635 - 22/08/2011 16:17:14    1016522

Both great players, but Cooper for me - he's just far too consistent and has that bit more flair than Brogan

gigoer (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 22/08/2011 16:21:43    1016525

Colm cooper any day of the week,a players player and a joy to watch

Billy_Bob_Rob (Meath) - Posts: 56 - 22/08/2011 16:47:29    1016559