27/01/2011 19:37:40
Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 3110

855255 ICTU should call a NATIONAL STRIKE if these workers are sacked. This is a litmus test for employees and the trade unions.

_________________
Great idea
The cabin crew should be allowed take their lunch at the same time
So should the pilots for that matter switch on the Auto pilot and tuck into a few T-bones
The garda should only have to work 9.30 to 3.30 as well with 1-2 for lunch
Maybe doctors should do the same - if you are on the operating table at 1pm yiou better hang in till they come back at 2.00pm
2.30 if its payday because they need half an hour to lodge the "paycheck" that was sent by EFT

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 27/01/2011 19:54:24    855282

"Its an employers market now simple as"

Thats exactly why we need unions !!
Otherwise we would have slavery !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 27/01/2011 19:59:55    855298

Good ideas Omar !! You should be a union rep !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 27/01/2011 20:12:41    855317

26/01/2011 10:26:42
liathroidboy
County: Mayo
Posts: 1309

853973
final warning are being given to these lazy overpaid dinner ladies/ cleaners- this is a great day :)




Why don't they just fly and operate without them?

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 27/01/2011 20:17:10    855323

Thats exactly why we need unions !!
Otherwise we would have slavery !!

Are you serious we far from a slavery even in the recession we have one of the higest standards of living in the world and one of the higest minimun wages!! (That come from someone on mimimun wage at the moment) Countries where union work are countries like scandanivia where ther have the own home based efficent and cost effective industries and high taxation which can sustain the economy and public services , union are more effective and properly run they just don't put everyone under the same umbrella and also union don't work when union membership is in the minority, Ireland tax is also one of the lowest in the world how can you sustain anything in a recession. I agree you can't tax your why out of a recession but in the good times you should have a surplus to protect you in the bad times, Ireland simply dosen't have this reserve at the moment so pay cuts and taxes are the only option.

We'er the blame we fought and pushed up wages in the good times which wasn't sustainable and now complain with the opposite is done.... granted some should take the hit more that other which isn't happening but everyone has to take a hit we were complaining in the boom years when money was been thrown at everything in a way that wouldn't protect the future and union played their part in stopping innovation and a competitive advantage when the times got bad.

Even if the government didn't bail out the banks (that what really the imf bailout has gone to fund) there was not enough to cover a yearly 20 billion deficite.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 27/01/2011 21:01:44    855396

Pay cuts and taxes might be the only way Hag but i would like to see it applied to all !! Rich still escaping !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 27/01/2011 21:13:49    855412

the reason there is a union and a history of strikes is that air lingus was fully state controlled for long enough and the unions saw it as a easy touch- that is whjy they got in and now that there is not and cannot under european law be any more state bailout air lingus is 100% on its own so these lazy employee are actually cutting the branch they are sitting on - to that end i really hope air lingus goes under- its will just be another union infested company that goes bus and you would have no sympathy if they ended up on the streets. the sense of entitlement runs so deep in union infested companies that these people cannot even comprehend that there is no bottomless pit of money anymore therefore i wish them all the best on the dole.

the talks with the union are just a soundbite for the shareholder that there is an end in sight- as soon as we get back to market principles the better the term for people in any organisation is HUMAN RESOURCE i.e. they should be openly traded and are nothing special. a well know american business man said unions are the cancer of any organisations they will eat away until there is nothing left so as soon as it emerges (unions) you immediately must cut and cut deep to rempve it and then go through a series of procedures to clean out the rest of the body (get rid of all people that are infected who may infect others) I fully subscribe to this attitude. remember this action is unquestionably costing jobs in other sectors as these greedy people are saying to potential investors that ireland is closed for business and every day contracts for business are being lost. at this stage i actually they go on all out strike so they will definately lose their jobs! 100 millon in debt because of these same staff and its absolutely clear they couldnt give a toss- tells you all you need to know about them

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 27/01/2011 21:18:08    855417

They are talking liathroidboy !! Talking, talking, talking !!

Are you disappointed ? You sound like you are !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 27/01/2011 21:26:02    855429

a great union tactic saying the rich dont pay- we pay for everything and always have paid for everything, without us there would be nothing no hospitals, education and we pay for 75% of it- the so called lower paid (actually massively overpaid) pay for nothing but demand everything! as i said before i will all communists the absolute worst in everything they do in life and the same for their families- they have ruined this country and feel no remorce so to that end i rejoyce every time i see a communist outside some mployers saying we are trying to save some of the job- i truly rejoyce as its 100% their own fault and they are taking the good people of this country down with them. i yet to heard even one argument that if you were somehow exploited as to how a a union offers more than the law.

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 27/01/2011 21:31:07    855439

Slasher:

This might be why unions work in scandanavia

"Swedish policies for effective structural adjustment have proven beneficial, and trade protectionism costly. This was something Sweden learnt from experience, e.g. when it unsuccessfully tried to protect its ship-building industry. The Swedish Government has been aided in its relatively liberal approach to foreign trade by the support it has obtained from Swedish trade unions. Landsorganisationen (LO), which is a large central organisation with 15 affiliates that organise workers within the private and the public sectors, has traditionally supported a policy where protection is focused on workers rights and benefits rather than on the jobs themselves. This has resulted in an open market for trade and investment."

Seen as it workers right and benefits (health care etc.) that are focused on there is less focus on wages.... the benefits are funded you could say by high taxation. Yet the unions here concentrate on the job (disputes when spec changes, new technology new roster hours in the case of aer lingus), Tax and the biggie for them is always pay..... might explain why union serve no purpose here they'er still in the dark ages..... we need reform across the board in this country.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 27/01/2011 21:41:12    855452

Hag & Cheese,

Are we considered a low tax country ? When i looked at my wages yesterday and saw the U.S.C. and the other deductions i would not consider us low tax !!

I don't know a lot about unions but the Scandinavian way seems to work so maybe we should take it on !! Who is going to negotiate with our unions about it ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 28/01/2011 12:56:08    855688

not low cavan extremely low- its obvious it has to be pone or the other reduce your massively inflated wages or significantly increase your taxes- as this flase ecomony has gone on too long- 4o% of working people still pay no tax at all- every body should pay tax even those on the dole, and everyone should have their wages reduced particularly the civil servethemselves

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 28/01/2011 13:03:48    855696

slasher:

We are starting to come into line wiith europe in relation to tax measures.

http://www.eapn.ie/eapn/policy/resources-on-taxation/tax-in-ireland-and-europe

Also I think it's rediculas that unions have an imput into how business gets done!!! They are not business experts or consultants they know nothing about it all their interested in is getting more money for members modern unions should only be associated with social responsibilty to their union members (pension health care etc.) and also legal issues.

That's the problem with this country all they have to do is look at a country that is doing things properly and effectively and copy and try to improve on it.... it's called benchmarking!!!! But unfortunately that word means something else here.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 28/01/2011 14:48:26    855798

What on earth is a flase economy ??

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 28/01/2011 14:50:02    855801

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 4224


This might be why unions work in scandanavia

"

Seen as it workers right and benefits (health care etc.) that are focused on there is less focus on wages.... the benefits are funded you could say by high taxation. Yet the unions here concentrate on the job (disputes when spec changes, new technology new roster hours in the case of aer lingus), Tax and the biggie for them is always pay..... might explain why union serve no purpose here they'er still in the dark ages..... we need reform across the board in this country.



Wonderful, we now realise how easy it is/was for Sweden to be a socialist country, high taxes spent on sensible things. They also CONSULTED rather than CONFRONTED the unions. So so easy to do.


And then......you still get it wrong. It is not the UNIONS who are in the dark ages, despite all the nonsense propaganda you hear unions do not govern, it is the GOVERNMENT who are in the dark ages.

The British economy has slipped because of the cuts, as EVERYONE said it would. The Government today blamed the unions and strikes.

Hasn't been a strike for 26 years........................................

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 28/01/2011 19:52:53    856067

patrique:
we now realise how easy it is/was for Sweden to be a socialist country
"This has resulted in an open market for trade and investment"
That dosen't sound like socialist to me but i suppose you have your own definition of socialism and refuse to accept neo-liberalism or social democracy as the proper definition of what the likes of sweden are!

That rubbish pat, tell me what the union know about business do you not agree that they should be looking after the social needs of workers.... in any of the publised lately were the workers rights in any way comprised legally, why is is it 99% of the time union disputes have to do with pay. Also I seen where where an individual has got suspended in a unionised company and the union rep straight off got everyone in the union to walk out of work. Why don't the union work on individual cases in this sense we're not in the day of big jim larkin these days when the conditions were bad. There's a legal process to deal with all these issues.

That's not collective bargaining it collective blackmail.....

high taxes spent on sensible things.
Ohhh right all irelands high taxes seem to go on wages there is nothing about the benefits that should be focused on like pension and healthcare..... ohhhh wait sure their's nothing wrong with them is there.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 28/01/2011 20:26:27    856096

The British economy has slipped because of the cuts, as EVERYONE said it would. The Government today blamed the unions and strikes.

Hasn't been a strike for 26 years........................................

Last time i checked aer lingus was an irish company based in ireland and the union was irish..... their are strikes in ireland. Here I would venture that the government and the unions are to blame hopefully we'll get the government out but unfortunately not the unions for a while yet but thankfully their membership is dropping with manufacturing companies set up in the 60/70's and the public sector being the last strong holds.

You've a right to be in a union in ireland but employers can choose to listen to them unfortunately people do.

Also didn't the unions say their would be no more strikes in the croke park agreement yet went back on their word and have they also implemented the reform they said they would??

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 28/01/2011 20:33:49    856103

Pat:

Hasn't been a strike for 26 years........................................
Do you mean just the public sector wasn't there a few strikes last march was their any other forms of industrial action i.e work to rule etc.
http://www.publictechnology.net/sector/central-gov/public-sector-union-begins-two-day-strike


Also there has been strikes in the uk in the private sector too remember B.A in march also I'm sure there has been many more.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 28/01/2011 20:44:55    856114

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 4227

856096
patrique:
we now realise how easy it is/was for Sweden to be a socialist country
"This has resulted in an open market for trade and investment"
That dosen't sound like socialist to me but i suppose you have your own definition of socialism and refuse to accept neo-liberalism or social democracy as the proper definition of what the likes of sweden are!



Social democracy is a label attached to socialism by capitalists to deflect people from the truth.

They dare not say socialism works so they call it social democracy as if socialism, the MOST democratic of political theories, was not democratic.

Looks as though they are still fooling people by using this tactic.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 28/01/2011 21:43:28    856175

28/01/2011 20:44:55
HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 4227

856114
Pat:

Hasn't been a strike for 26 years........................................
Do you mean just the public sector wasn't there a few strikes last march was their any other forms of industrial action i.e work to rule etc.
http://www.publictechnology.net/sector/central-gov/public-sector-union-begins-two-day-strike



A two day STOPPAGE is not a strike. It is a protest. Strikes are not time bound.

No wonder it is so easy to hang onto power, people believe anything.

I expect Fianna fail to win EVERY seat in the election.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 28/01/2011 21:45:58    856176