24/01/2011 14:47:32
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 7008


Abusing staff ?

What do you define as fair terms and conditions
What do you regard as a normal working week - 700 hours = 14.5 hours a week It is rough compared to say teachers but most people would take it
What are the additional ground duties that you refer to ?
Do you propose that they should all take lunch from 1 to 2 including the pilots even if the plane is halfway across the atlantic ?
Why can every other airline in Europe work to Flexi Rosters and staggered meal breaks except this one

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 24/01/2011 15:02:11    852637

Omar,

I have come up with a solution that should suit you !!

Sack all the ground staff, mechanics and all !! Sure any old eejit with a spanner would be able to keep one of them old planes flying !!
Sack the air traffic controllers too, sure wouldn't i be able to guide one of them things in to land, theres nothing to it i'd imagine !!
As for pilots sure didn't we all manage the old John Deere and Massey !! Sure they can't be that hard to fly at all just give me a map and a compass !! Sure i could eat me sandwiches when i'm flying !! Easy peesy !!

I'd work for 40 euro an hour too !! We will have old Aer Lingus making profit in no time at all and sure me brother could be a manager too as he worked in Tesco at one stage !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/01/2011 15:32:16    852667

Omar,

I have a lad ringing me back from outside Cullyhanna on a price for the diesel !!
Another lad is getting me a price for the big tyres - Do you know the size ? He does the real big Massey ones anyway but we'd want them all the same size !!
We can get old bus seats from Finnegans in Carrick very cheap !!
Aldi is doing the bread at 55c a pan but don't mention that top the brother as he is Tesco mad !!
If we put the boot down we can soon pass out the other airlines and maybe get in a couple more flights a day !!
i have advanced bookings for a few football flights !! We will keep the windows locked in case any of that crowd (you know which team supporters i'm on about) throw empty bottles out while we are flying over Manchester !!
I was thinking we could put advertising on the bottom of the wings so that people could read them from the ground. We might fly low over Dublin !!
That fecker O'Leary beat us to the toilet charges but we'll put a fancy shower in ours !!

I'll be back to you. We will have Aer Lingus making profit in no time !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/01/2011 16:39:05    852734

To be honest it would make more sense to look at the big numbers

In 2009 the total money spend on salaries was €400m including €88m spent to restructure old employee contracts
This was for an average of 3,844 employees so an average of €104,000 a head - if thats abuse of workers there are plenty that would take it
90% of the employees are union members and a union leader is on the board.

The price of bread isn't where I would start any review of savings

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 24/01/2011 17:36:15    852800

im absolutely delighted the airline are standing their ground- as we have seen in the past few days these people are not needed- if these people are too good for their job they should find another one, working in a cafe perhaps that is all they are qualified to do- if they are being exploited there are about 450000 people on this isalnd that would love to be exploited. cavan you post are getting more pathetic by the min- your givin us all a great laugh please continue

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 24/01/2011 19:02:09    852891

Liathroidboy,

Will you be a co-pilot ? You can also look after the toilet paper !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/01/2011 19:09:04    852902

400,000e plus a day hiring planes !! What a waste !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/01/2011 19:31:31    852932

24/01/2011 19:31:31
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 7018

852932 400,000e plus a day hiring planes !! What a waste !!
______________
Union PR

Its easy to spin
I could say that these staff get paid €150 an hour for pouring tea (I could pay 20 people 7.50 an hour for every one Aer Lingus employee)
In fact we could replace the 3844 with 75,000 people and reduce the live register by 20% for the same money
I know its not strictly correct but it would make a good soundbite (104,000 divided by 700 hours)
Also they got paid €88m last year to work different hours and now they won't

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 24/01/2011 19:41:29    852942

Expected more from slasher here.

Unable to argue back so instead resort to acting like a child.............

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 24/01/2011 19:43:55    852944

Black & White,

The whole basis of my argument originally was about respect !!
Nothing to do with financial arguments as that is your domain and Omars. I am not in that industry nor do i want to be. The basis of my argument all along was that if there is no respect for workers then you get strikes, industrial action etc !!
I had a bit of sport when i was asked financial questions. All i know is what was in the newspaper !!
I expected more from you too as you are a money man but if you can get me the Aer Lingus books i will have a look at them but no promises !! I do not take a worker by his looks or value his worth to do a job i know little about. Mutual respect is what is needed !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/01/2011 20:15:02    852973

Omar already has the financial numbers nailed on, I didn't see the need to add any further.

It's a simple situation, the company needs to move to the new agreed rostering to become financially viable.
The unions agreed to the new rosters, but didn't realise some of the implications.
The stories about 8 or 11 hours without a meal break are pure union lies. The new rosters mean that there isn't a designated specific time for the meal break to be taken, but instead they take it within a 2/3 hour window, as directed by the on-board supervisor. The reasoning behind this is to ensure that all flight attendants on a flight aren't taking their break at the same time.
The union is looking for a fight, and they've decided to try and renege on their argeement to get this.


And if you want the financial information, it's all available on their website
http://www.aerlingus.com/aboutus/investorrelations/

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 25/01/2011 11:55:25    853247

its pure drivel by the unions and their PR has completely backfired- the 11 hour lie has being shown up for what it is and the absolute greed of the staff has come to the fore- if they want worklife balance a trolly dolly isnt the job for them perhaps a teacher would be better (another part time job). its great to hear that the company are starting the dismissals procedure this afternoon- when people get too big for their boots they must be taken down a peg or two- they actually recieved the money to do this work but have renaged on the work so they effectively stole the money (a bit like the refoms promised by social partnership by all civil servethemselves over the past decade). What is best about this is that if these people are dismissed which they all should be and an agreement is reached afterwards they under no circumstances can be given their jobs back they must reapply and then the company can simply hire someone else - as if they were rehired without an open competition it would be against employment law! Hurray for air lingus may this be a part of a trend that will hopefully sweep through the civil service so the people of ireland will get what they have actuall paid for and the communist union members will no longer continue to steal our hard earned money- they might for a change have to work for it :)

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 25/01/2011 12:13:02    853262

B & W,

I listened to the Gerald Flynn interview on Morning Ireland. He stated that there is very little between both sides and that he understood that some discussions were going on between Unions and management. Why direct talks are not happening is beyond me !!
Ael Lingus are paying 400,000e a day and have cancelled 78 flights !!
It is pig-headed that they are not talking !!
Sacking workers will only lead to a worsening of the situation !!

On the meal break issue the Impact union is still disputing that there was an agreement as far as i can understand !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/01/2011 12:35:29    853294

why should they talk to people who wont work? 400000 a day according to who is what i say? and even if it is that it just shows the contempt of these people whos greed has reached epic proportions! Well done air lingus - this could be the begining of the end of the unions which would be the best thing that could ever happen this country! we must get back to principle where employee are there to doo a job i.e. what they are told! its just another example of how unions have ruined or are trying to ruin every great industry in the world- the sooner ryanair takes over air lingus the better- this dispute would have lasted 20 mins under o leary! why dont all organisation exercise their right to refuse to recognise unions and just deal with staff- there has never being one case where a union has beneefited any organisation all it is is a heaven for lazy people! noone is exploited in this country, by law you must get the minimum wage (which is about 50% too high) therefor there is not one instance anywhere of being exploited i.e we dont need unions

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 25/01/2011 12:47:58    853307

Slasher

I saw a copy of the agreement last night. Meal breaks are dealt with.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 25/01/2011 14:02:56    853388

i seen the agreement too and its pathetic that they have anything to complain about - i have also heard from a manager in air lingus that anyone involved in the strike will be 'marked tightly from now on and they can kiss any promotion in future goodbye' he also point out that if any of these people every resign and move to another company weell lets just say the private reference wont be favourable- this all made me smile :)

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 25/01/2011 14:40:17    853427

Ah well at least they'll have a job liathroid !! Make you sad ?

They should be talking about their problems all the time, both sides !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/01/2011 15:21:00    853467

B & W,

I have not read the agreement on meal breaks and cannot find any articles on it. Have you a link ?
If you are right then the protest should be called off !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/01/2011 15:24:16    853471

no they shouldnt be talking at all about problems, if employees have problems they sshould see a councellor, at work they should be remined that they are there to do a job and should spend their day doing whatever it is the company requires then to do- if that does not fit in with their sense of self worth then perhaps they are too good for the job and thefore they should get another one. These people are cutting the branch they are sitting on and will get their cummupance one way or another as the company will squeeze all the lost revenue out of them in the long run and rightly so. as soon as this is all over a simple statement to all staff should read 'due to disobedient staff wasting in excess of X amount of money- the company will be removing all priveledges until this is rectified, and i would list all the staff' - problem = sorted! These people get free uniforms, free medical, free food and massive pensions- i would just simply cut all benifits until the money is regained

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 25/01/2011 15:31:56    853481

liathroidboy,

They began talking in the North of Ireland after more than 30 years of killing !! Everyone talks in the end !! Of course they should talk !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/01/2011 16:32:38    853526