Cavan_Slasher

So the little man wins for once !!


Of course. Strange how someone who spends a lot of time complaining about "tax dodgers" has no complaints when the Aer Lingus employees don't pay tax on their €75k payouts...........

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 24/02/2011 13:35:37    875403

ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 3375

875345
24/02/2011 12:37:50
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 7342

875330 So the little man wins for once !!

_______

Thats the problem with unions - they think in the short term - I'm sure the unions in Waterford Crystal won manys a battle
There is only one winner here and its Ryanair - Aer lingus are paying their staff over a €100k a year plus the above
They pass this on to the consumer - Aer Lingus can't compete and in three years time Ryanair will have a 100% monoply and will charge what they like.


Have you a link to the wage scales Ruanua ?
I doubt the cabin crew who took industrial action are on 100k !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/02/2011 13:53:10    875420

no they stole the money that is for sure- but you would have to sue individually and that would take years and the lazy communists whould strike the who way through it all as they have being causght out by the revenus- just add the 32 million to the greenfield plan and make the entire airlingus staff pay it back- problem solved.

love the article in the times that unions are becoming largely irrelavant and numbers are falling daily- soon we with rid this country of the cancer that is unions. ya have to laugh at the ceaners still on strike over the new minimum wage

here are the maths 8.65* 40 = 346 * 3 = 1030 - that is is how much they have lost each, its goniong take a long time at 7.65 to earn that back i.e. 136 hours :D

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 24/02/2011 13:56:02    875433

When Garret Fitzgerald had his 170k debt wiped out by the bank because of who he was there was hardly a mumble. Charlie Haughey and his loans treated the same. Did the ordinary man not pay for this ? Is the ordinary customer not a taxpayer ? Pots and kettles again !!


Black & White,

I do not like tax dodgers at all but this is the first time i saw the small guy winning and i know it doesn't make it right but at least they were not the elite this time !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/02/2011 15:11:42    875529

Black & White,

I actually do have a problem with tax avoidance but i wonder why the ex-leaders of our country who had loans written off by banks did not cause such a storm !! One of them having 170k written off and another not paying off any of his loans. You must know who i mean (the Admin wouldn't post my 1st reply) !! Who paid for their bad debts only the small man !! My comment was just because it was the first time i saw the small man get away with anything !! At least the tax was paid this time by someone other than the ordinary Joe Citizen !! If these workers were not part of a Union would you think the same of them !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/02/2011 15:31:34    875559

its simple at every opportunity IBEC, politicians, business people should keep repeating to anyone asking for state funing for anything 'if the air lingus staff in conjunction with the unions didnt steal 32.5 million you would have your school/ business start up fund etc.etc.' you will never shame these people into handing it back but you can use it to rid the country of their like once and for all. and the same people will be sobbing in 5 years when air lingus closes- and who in their right mind will employ them? they will get whats coming to them- they should hold any few bob they have cause soon they will have nothing and i will laugh in their faces

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 24/02/2011 15:41:18    875568

You will be ok anyway liathroidboy with your toy helicopter !!
Are you not late for your flight ?? to Scotlasnd ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/02/2011 15:50:49    875582

24/02/2011 13:53:10
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 7348

875420 ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 3375

875345
24/02/2011 12:37:50
Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 7342

875330 So the little man wins for once !!

_______

Thats the problem with unions - they think in the short term - I'm sure the unions in Waterford Crystal won manys a battle
There is only one winner here and its Ryanair - Aer lingus are paying their staff over a €100k a year plus the above
They pass this on to the consumer - Aer Lingus can't compete and in three years time Ryanair will have a 100% monoply and will charge what they like.


Have you a link to the wage scales Ruanua ?
I doubt the cabin crew who took industrial action are on 100k !!
_________________
Read their accounts - they are public divide total payroll costs by average number of employees = average salary cost
its double Ryanairs for less work

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 24/02/2011 15:51:51    875584

slasher

It's ordinary people who will end up paying for it, and the people who have already gotten their €75k each pay nothing.

Aer Lingus are out over €30million. That'll just be passed back onto customers in prices increases.

Over half of the shareholder based are made up of the Government and Irish pension funds...... again, regular people paying for it.

I'm not blaming the employees or the unions for this. They took what was on offer, and were given assurances that it would be tax free.

It's the combination of the civil servants in the Department of Finance that promised Aer Lingus that it would be tax exempt, and Bertie who pressured them into implementing the scheme that are responsible.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 24/02/2011 16:03:27    875598

Ruanua,

You are probably correct in what you say but its at the top that the big wage earners are !!

I saw a similar thing for the Garda a few years ago i.e divide the total pay by the number of employees and the wages were enormous !!
When i brought it to the notice of my Garda nephew he showed me his cheque and it was not very good at all !! Another reason why the cuts should be at the top !!
Its not good to work out wages by dividing the overall bill by the number of employees as it does the small man a disservice !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/02/2011 17:22:49    875673

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 7351

875673 Ruanua,

You are probably correct in what you say but its at the top that the big wage earners are !!

I saw a similar thing for the Garda a few years ago i.e divide the total pay by the number of employees and the wages were enormous !!
When i brought it to the notice of my Garda nephew he showed me his cheque and it was not very good at all !! Another reason why the cuts should be at the top !!
Its not good to work out wages by dividing the overall bill by the number of employees as it does the small man a disservice !!

You're right Slasher. It's the lazy, inaccurate way to do it. The same thing is done to public servants by those paragons of accuracy and accountability our print media in order to spread inaccuracies about our public servants.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 24/02/2011 17:34:32    875687

Greengrass,

Exactly !! Thats what caused the Public / Private divide !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/02/2011 17:41:59    875694

ahh incorrct folks- the public / private devide is based on the fact that the public service is an abolute gold mine for those who are involved - all are overpaid, recieved bonuses, perks etc that are conmpletely unnecessay and get massive pensions and are working at about 40% capacity as they are nearly all communists who are completely alien to change and doing an honest days work- the private sector is exactly the opposite- to say a cops wage isnt great - its a minimum wage job- €306 for 40 hours is loads to give them in fact i would say its too much to give them.

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 25/02/2011 09:53:37    876035

"The same thing is done to public servants by those paragons of accuracy and accountability our print media in order to spread inaccuracies about our public servants."

Ok here we go again, the public sector workers earn more on average that their private sector equilivants did before "benchmarking" and even more after benchmarking. I know slasher will come back with he could be earning more in the same job in the private sector but it done on average.

Look at the facts between 2001 and 2006 salaries went up on average 59% payroll went up 18% and pensions 81%, also the biggest gap between private sector and public sector equilivants wage wise is on the lower level also i've read that the % of manager in the public sector is lower than that of the private sector.

Have a read of Public-Private Wage Differentials in Ireland, G.Boyle, R.McElligott and J.O'Leary, that will tell you all but I suppose that's just propaganda. Also have a read of the 283 page (I think) benchmarking report it's rediculas..... Benchmarking is about adopting best practise thus becomming more efficient cutting costs and saving money, yet the "benchmarking" done only dealth with pay and nothing else which didn't save money.

Think about 272 pages of the report are about pay the rest is a cover pages, table of contents etc.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/02/2011 11:16:54    876102

liathroidboy,

I saw one Garda's wages, addiditions, deductions etc and i would not work for that money or take the **** they have to take !! No way !!
I thought you were in Scotland at the rugby since yesterday !! Must not be having too good a time with your rich buddies if you are on here posting !! Bluffer !!

Hag & Cheese,
I don't have time to read that document at the moment but i will and come back to you. You are right by the way that i think the money is better in the private Sector as proof of the pudding is in the eating. I work one day a week in the private sector and get very good pay for it !! In fact two days there would get mne slightly more than 3 days at my other public sector job !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/02/2011 11:44:39    876125

Cavan_Slasher:

Exactly your situation is not the norm across the public sector, that's what averages show.... also what do you make of the biggest average differences between job equivalents in the public and private sector being at the lower paid level.

I've tried to get into the facts and figures of it you you ur own personal expireances there are over 350,000 I think in the public sector are you telling me that just because it might be true for you it's true for the rest of them...... the biggest inequalities are in the civil service you would be more front line staff and that's were my problem is the money was spent on the wrong things, wages increased yet funding for technology to do jobs better and give financial support to area which need it.

On a final point Ireland spends probably one of the lowest as a percent of GDP on the public sector yet it has one of not the higest paid public sector (dose that make sense to you) also don't use the cost of living as an excuse as the u.k's cost of living is not too different to the irelands and some of our public servants are paid up to twice as much for equilivant positions...... and that's not even talking about pensions and job security!!!

I'd perfer not to get into this again slasher I've good time for you but I don't accept your situation as an valid arguement for people across the public sector I would argue that the likes of you are the exception rather than the norm!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/02/2011 13:13:57    876204

Cavan_Slasher:

Ever hear of garda overtime that is where a hell of a lot of the wage bill for gardai come from, lads in the corrib gas field were pulling 6 figure amounts on overtime.... that another area where wages need to be restructured.

Basic wage for gardai might be up there with the rest in the public sector but they make it on overtime and bonuses... which many fugures on this use, do you think overtime and bonuses should be left out of that??? As much of the private sector dosen't get paid for overtime, the industrial wage dose in general as most are on minimum wage and that is one of the factors on how the industrial wage has increased not the only factor but one of them.

I would think you do not get paid for overtime and maybe your nephew dosen't do that much overtime?? I wonce again outline its front line staff that should have the wage increases but the union's just helped in throwing everyone in there and insuring the wrong people got the wage increases.

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/02/2011 13:31:06    876226

Hag & Cheese,

I agree and have already made that point on another thread. Overtime and allowances are a tool used to prop up the basic wage and that is fairly low ( and designed as such) to encourage extra work. Now if a Garda or Nurse had a good basic wage they might decide not to work overtime but if their wages are low they have no choice !!
That reason was always used in the Public Sector for those doing Frontline jobs !!

What do you think is a fair take-home wage for a garda, nurse,fireman etc to enable them to pay bills, mortgage etc as many of them are struggling ? Who in the Private Sector should the Frontline staff equate with ? Also i know many friends in the Private Sector who are also struggling but their jobs are graded less than Frontline staff !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/02/2011 14:48:05    876309

minimum wage is loads to pay them- you seem to think that these people must get themselves into debt with a mortgage when they dont so the tax payer should not have to fund their lifestyle- 306 is more than enough as they contribute absolutelys- imagine the luxury of being a cop- spend the week alternating between going for a walk and going for a spin in the car- at the weekend they throw a few drunk lads in a cell- i mean people would actually pay to do that job its that easy- and when you add in the nonsense like a shoe bonus as they have to walk well you know how pathetic these people are

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 25/02/2011 15:32:25    876366

Cavan_Slasher:

I've already said I don't agree with that money should have been invested in ameanities to help them do their jobs better yet there was 20 billion pumped into the public sector in Mccreevy time mostly on head count and wages ("benchmarking"). If you look at the irish health sector this has lead to nearly twice the amount of doctors and nurses per head pf population half the amount of hospital places and medical technology per head of population compared to the eu average.

You see anything wrong there.

Focus should have been on the front line but unions helped in making sure that everyone got their piece and the front probably got less.... now that their are cuts needed the unions make sure that everyone again takes the hit and the front-line tend to take it even more..... unions look after the pencil pushers and managers and are as currupt as the governement were.

There were also disputes when they tried to introduce work practises that would make things more efficent how dose that help anyone availing of public services.

In the public sector the focus should be on front line but everyone can see it not, why then is their no divide in the protest within the public sector!! It collective bargaining and that will always serve the more powerful and the majority.

The only protest I saw from that was benefitial in all this was a protest by the fire services that wanted to disband all the separate juristrictions and combine them in to larger one's thus helping to streamline and become more efficent, I don't think this got union support but i could be wrong there.

I got a bit of inside information about a certain area of the public sector which in accordance with the croke park agreement had to implement proformance measures.... the first draft of the method was brought forward (how long after the croke park agreement now) their was uproar, one person actually made the point why should they be monitored on their porformance as they are public servants..... what do you make of that, well they are public servants but they get paid for being one and pay should be proformance based!!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 25/02/2011 15:53:48    876385