Our nurses are sought after throughout the world as they are the best. Everybody bar you knows that !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 16/02/2011 20:25:36    869564

liathroidboy
County: Mayo
Posts: 1741

869544 its 100% true and in the event that we ever do need a few to help making beds and assist with the cleaning would we not we better gettting agency workers from eastern europe- when you add no value i always say you shoul be immediately outsourced- imagine the billions that could be saved a year

More smug. self-satisfied, self-serving statements from liathroidi. A question liathroidi. How does an individual add "value"?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 16/02/2011 21:22:26    869630

when the make money or assist in reducing costs- that is value!

our nurses are sought all over the work because other countries have copped on that its alot cheaper to buy nurses in - this proves my point on scrapping the teaching of nurses- we can get them in cheaper from other countries. that definately proves im right- imagine the billions that could be saved all you do it go onto mainlad europe and have nurses recruitment fair- set up an agency in each country and pay them the lower wage fom that country. by scrapping the teaching of nursing and the ego inflated wages we pay them i would imagine savings in excess of 1 billion a year- in fact this is an excellent idea everyone benefits.

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 17/02/2011 09:07:44    869706

Do you also believe in euthanasia liathroidboy ? Why treat old people at all if they are past their best ? Look at the money we could save !!


There is more to life than money son !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/02/2011 13:06:08    869885

liathroidboy
County: Mayo
Posts: 1751

869706 when the make money or assist in reducing costs- that is value!

our nurses are sought all over the work because other countries have copped on that its alot cheaper to buy nurses in - this proves my point on scrapping the teaching of nurses- we can get them in cheaper from other countries. that definately proves im right- imagine the billions that could be saved all you do it go onto mainlad europe and have nurses recruitment fair- set up an agency in each country and pay them the lower wage fom that country. by scrapping the teaching of nursing and the ego inflated wages we pay them i would imagine savings in excess of 1 billion a year- in fact this is an excellent idea everyone benefits.
17/02/2011 13:06:08

Oh if life were so simple liathroidi. It must be wonderful to have such simplistic world view. You really do need to get out more and live in the real world. As for defining "value" as " when the (sic) make money or assisr in reducing costs",that is as laughable as it is ignorant. Like I said you need to get out more and live in the real world.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 17/02/2011 14:59:55    869971

when the make money or assist in reducing costs- that is value!

You surprise me there you say that your business is in reducing waste etc..... would you not know the definitions of the following

CVA (Customer Value Added - or just VA for Value Added): adding form fit or function to a product or service, an activity that the customer would be willing to pay for in isolation if they knew it was being done - e.g. Creating code, implementing functionality.

BVA (Business Value Added - non-negotiable waste): an activity that is required to operate the business but the customer is unwilling to pay for - e.g. Budget tracking, code documentation.

NVA (Non-Value Added): an activity that is not required by the business nor is the customer willing to pay for - e.g. Waiting for resource allocation, requirements documents.

NNVA (Necessary Non Value Add): Activities that add no value from the customer's perspective but are required in order to operate the business.

Seems you base everything around money what about service etc.

Also you say evrything should be outsourched well what happens if the sourcing company is cheaper but dosen't offer as good of a service!!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/02/2011 15:16:19    869991

Seems you focus on the economic definition of value..... yet if your business is what you claim it is you should be focusing on the definition of value above??

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/02/2011 15:44:50    870014

liathroidboy gone AWOL now seen as he's pressed on his fictional business?? Maybe he out servicing his helicopter or doing a quick check on his many many businesses!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 17/02/2011 17:14:23    870123

Hag & Cheese,

He's only half doing it !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/02/2011 17:27:41    870131

of course i believe in euthanasia cavan its the individual in questions choice you are pressing it like going about killing people as in someone else decides.

Hag i am a pure capitalist- the valuse added i only believe in financial value added - the concepts you mention while i did study them in university dont apply to my situation- i am a here and now individual i thought you would have known that! I had a conference call this afternoon sorry to dissapoint you!

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 17/02/2011 18:06:21    870180

HAG_AND_CHEESE
County: Tipperary
Posts: 4349

869991 when the make money or assist in reducing costs- that is value

Seems you base everything around money what about service etc.

Also you say evrything should be outsourched well what happens if the sourcing company is cheaper but dosen't offer as good of a service!!!

Seems both of you define value purely in business terms. That is an extremely narrow view of the word value. You both need to realise that we live in a society not an economy. The economy is a very important part of society. The economy is primarily concerned with the generationn of money through entrepeneurship, ingenuity and initiative. I would venture to say that those qualities are valuable.

There are howeve,r in society at large other forms of activity which generate no money, yet are exceptionally valuable. The lives of both my wife and unborn child were saved through the prompt action of the midwives, doctors, and nurses at our local hospital a number of years ago. These people generated no money through their actions, yet they performed a very valuable service. Every time a child is delivered a very valuable service is performed. I have had cause to visit The National Rehabilitation Centre in Dun Laoighaire. People there are recovering from the most appaling injuries. They are aided in their recoveries both physical and spiritual by the staff at that incredible institutiion. Is that work devoid of value because money is not generated ? Is the work of a teacher who has a positive influence on a child devoid of value ? There are hundreds of thousands in our society who as a result of their work contribute positively to society. Is that work devoid of value ? I don't believe it is.
For too long we have heard phrases like "the non-productive sector of the economy". Such phrases are highly disparaging of the work done by so many people and is indicative of the blinkered and prejudiced attitudes held by far too many people in business. As i said previously people need to realise that we live in a society to which we all contribute through our work.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 17/02/2011 19:12:28    870245

Good post Greengrass !!

I would visit a hospital nearly every week with some unfortunate child and the care and friendship of the frontline staff is always to be admired even when they are being verbally abused by drunken louts at weekends !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 17/02/2011 19:49:18    870282

Seems both of you define value purely in business terms. That is an extremely narrow view of the word value. You both need to realise that we live in a society not an economy. The economy is a very important part of society. The economy is primarily concerned with the generationn of money through entrepeneurship, ingenuity and initiative. I would venture to say that those qualities are valuable.

Pardon???

How do you mean I defined it as a product or a service customer is willing to pay for thus they will define if it is of value to them.... ur on about teachers well they get paid so we are the customers (tax payer) and thus should be controlled by what add value in that sense.

I thought we were defining it in term of business and I was pointing out that ballbay had an incorrect definition of it.

There are other definition of value i.e personal values, moral value society value etc.

So pop down off your soap box there for a sec!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/02/2011 11:30:02    870543

liathroidboy:

Absolute coddle ballboy you are saying you just deal with cutting costs but you ignore what i mentioned above!!! Your a spoofer true and simple, Ever hear of value stream mapping you have to understand the business and how it functions before you streamline and if it comes to it make cuts.

Just to humor you if you went into a business to cut costs as you do what would you approach to it be!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/02/2011 11:35:12    870549

hag are you saying i dont understand my own business???? how you can come up with that is beyond me. in relation to cutting costs you dont start with anything in particulr you lokk for savings in every aspect of the business from top to bottom- dont worry your little brain about it i have a slick operation. but the first thing you do is without doubt especially in recessionary times is you fire a few people as a gesture, and impliment a policy of forced turnover where you let the bottom performers go every year - its a great motivational tool i find especially in terms of just issuing zero hour or short term contracts- every day the idea is to have your employees coming in thinking i must save my job. if you are stupid enough to make people permanent, or give long contracts they become lazy. and if its purly simplictic work you either pay piece rate or employ a scientific management approach where you divide the time it takes to do a job into the working week and that is their target - you offer them a wage based on that target and adjust it every week in relation to their output- its a great money saver. then you simply outsourse anything and everything you can - why pay a cleaner yourself for a massive 7.65 an hour when you can get someone who isnt an employee of yours to do it for 5- it makes sense. i have plenty of experience on these matters and i base it around the fact that fear is the best motivator in the world. people are only resourses and should be treated as such- put the numer for the samartians on the wall and say all moaning should be done with them. my profits are the most important thing in the business everything else can be got rid of in an instance and that is the way to have people thinking- they must make money the sale of the product and they must save money in how the product is sold- God i love business :)

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 18/02/2011 12:05:06    870578

Hag & Cheese,

Looks like you caught him out again !!

He knows as much about the economy as my cat knows about chainsaws !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 18/02/2011 12:16:41    870593

liathroidboy:

emmmm I thought you said your were a consultant helping other business's to cut costs!!! I'm not talking about your "business", I'm saying that if you go into another business how do you approach it. Any clown could go in cut wages and fire people!!

It not all about pay you know I'll give you and example a company cut it complaints division turn around from 28 days to 2 thus cutting out unnesseray processing in many departments and saving money.... if they went in an fired people and cut wages they'd still have the 28 day turn around maybe more but they be doing the wrong things still and in the long term may cost them more.

How come companies like google can make so much money and still pay well??? Because they are innovative going in cutting wages and firing people is not innovative it the exact same thing that's been done for hundreds of years!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/02/2011 12:33:31    870611

HAG- cutting complaints from 28-2 days is a cost saving mechanism - do you not get that i certainly do. if i went into another company the first thing i would do is ask is here a union if there is i would say thats the first thing you must get rid of- ive researched this extensively and there isnt a single reputable study that links unionisation with productivity and profitability they are all negatively correlated. second i would get everyone to reapply for their job with the emphasis on two things 1) how they create value and 2) why are they critical to the future of the business. That would be the first step and i would take it from there. then i would establish core and non core people. the non core i would eliminate or outsource them. I would ask all manager to rate each employee out of 10- and get rid of the useless ones. i would immediately issue new contracts to remaining staff about terms and conditions with emphasis on flexibility as central to employment. then i would look at the systems and reorganise the way the work is carried out. you cant change systems until you get lean and remove those who are not capable of change. but i suppose the main thing to remember is that you are here to save a company which is the most important thing and people must be treated just as any other resource.

i love the google myth floating about. google pays 24,000 yo yo to new staff and they work 12 hours a day for that and its a rat race where only the best are kept. secondly they create this image that people work for google and not a specific task within google. the majority of people are call centre employees doing basic cold calling sales for advertising - yet they and the public are consumed with this working for google image rather than the task- its a great strategic ploy on behalf of google and everyone has taken the bait. i applaud them as the old saying goes 'if you can convince the world you are an early riser, you can stay in bed all day' google pulled a masterstroke on this.

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 18/02/2011 14:28:50    870719

also on google they dont fire people they just dont renew contracts- another excellent ploy. google does not make people permanent as they view them as a resourse that must be easily got rid of

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 18/02/2011 14:33:12    870725

HAG- cutting complaints from 28-2 days is a cost saving mechanism
Cost saving due to improved efficence there wasn't an approach of firing and cutting wages as you point out.... so truely are you really a consultant on helping companies cut costs..... pay and firing are just short term measures, with your attitude if I own a business I would want your consultant advice.

then i would look at the systems and reorganise the way the work is carried out. you cant change systems until you get lean and remove those who are not capable of change.
Don't be afraid to go into more detail on this it's my area of study what sort of methodolgy would you use etc. what sort of time frame would you expect to become Lean?? What types of business's do you do consultanty work for??

i love the google myth floating about. google pays 24,000 yo yo to new staff and they work 12 hours a day for that and its a rat race where only the best are kept. As a person who went throught a few rounds of interviews for a job in google in the past I know the figure you touted is wrong as even graduate position pay a lot more than that in google.... also you are forgetting the additional perks employees get also. Also most google employees are full time I know as I have family members who have worked there in fact staff retention is prooving to be one of the big problems in google at the moment as they staff they have had for years now which have dove the innovation are being lost to new startups and the likes of facebook at the moment.... they google model is the opposite to what you seem to live by.
Look at the following http://www.jobs.ie/ApplyForJob.aspx?Id=1083285 a listing of new jobs in google I don't see any contract jobs!!

Even the japanese the masters of efficency as part of their mantra of TQM etc. employee retention was their main focus... as if you have high employee turnover you are looking at added training cost and the loss of expertise. Your model might work in recession times as people need their jobs but how would it work in the boom times people would just move on.... it's all about supply and demand.

the majority of people are call centre employees doing basic cold calling sales for advertising
You don't really know what they do at all do you, people contact them wanting to advertised and pay to come higher up search list or advertising space much of this is controlled by the costomer threw things such as "adsence". Facebook use a very similar model!!

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 18/02/2011 14:56:18    870749