Absolutely right Sergeant. I'm for civil partnership, as a way of giving committed couples the rights they deserve, but as far as I'm concerned marriage is between one man and one woman, and children where ever possible should be raised within a married family.

I have yet to hear one argument in favour of same-sex 'marriage' that I think is even slightly valid.

The basic concepts of equality, commitment and family

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 13/01/2011 18:21:02    845781

The basic concepts of equality, commitment and family

Equality: Yes, all are equal before the law. But that doesn't mean that all relationships are equal. Marriage is fundamentally about children, and homosexual relationships never produce children. Homosexuality can never be regarded as on an equal footing with heterosexuality, on a practical sense they're completely different.

Commitment: Absolutely, gays are committed to one another. Good for them, and good for anyone else who's in a committed relationship. But that doesn't mean that they've a right to marry. Do committed incestuous couples have a right to marry? Does a man have a right to marry two women, if he's committed to both?

Family: A child, wherever possible, should have a mother AND a father. Gay adoption deprives children of this right. It's not about gay rights, it's about children's rights. That's where the priority ought to be.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 13/01/2011 18:50:20    845808

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2657


The basic concepts of equality, commitment and family

I don't wish to be equal with a man who has feelings for another man. Is that clear?

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 13/01/2011 18:56:10    845811

Senator Paddy Burke is my pick. In my opinion that current President has been a disaster. Time for a change.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 13/01/2011 20:53:32    845918

Fair enough Seamus if that's your opinion. Some people would see marriage as two people making a commitment to each other before God regardless of their genitalia.

Re adoption Would it not be better for a child to grow with two loving parents, regardless of sex, rather than growing up with no parents at all. Also many gay people have their own kids and want to get married so their kids have two married parents growing up.

When you say a homosexual relationship can never be regarded on an equal footing as a heterosexual relationship... it's just very sad that people who think like you are still part of our society in this day and age.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 13/01/2011 20:59:47    845925

i dislike the man norris, I do so because he is an obnoxious, condescending anglophile with a very high opinion of himself.

Personally I am completely in favour of gay couples adopting/getting married. Won't be too long till the Churches will be crying out for the trade.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1795 - 13/01/2011 21:14:35    845945

95% of people that condemn gasys do it to cover up their own feelings

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 13/01/2011 21:25:37    845958

Fair enough Seamus if that's your opinion. Some people would see marriage as two people making a commitment to each other before God regardless of their genitalia.

Re adoption Would it not be better for a child to grow with two loving parents, regardless of sex, rather than growing up with no parents at all. Also many gay people have their own kids and want to get married so their kids have two married parents growing up.

When you say a homosexual relationship can never be regarded on an equal footing as a heterosexual relationship... it's just very sad that people who think like you are still part of our society in this day and age.

I believe what I believe. Just one thing to say about adoption, seeing as how you didn't address any of the other issues I raised and just attacked me as a homophobe. I'm not for an all out ban on gay adoption. Any fair minded person would say that it's better for a child to be raised by a gay couple in a loving home environment than for him or her to live in a Romanian orphanage.

But that's not the issue. The issue is whether a mother and a father should be given preference over two people of the same gender, or a single person for that matter.

One question for you: if a married man and woman want to adopt, and a gay couple want to adopt, and the two couples are both perfectly lovely people with the same incomes, basically equal in every way except the obvious one...

Would you give the child to the husband and wife, or would you give the child to the gay couple?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 13/01/2011 21:29:24    845961

seamus there are statistics to prove that a child brought up by a same sex couple dose just as well as hetrosexual couple . should a person be punished for his or her biological makeup to appease man made law in ireland. if so your putting yourself in the same bracket as the taliban

booboo (Cork) - Posts: 1382 - 13/01/2011 21:46:41    845980

So booboo, you see no value in having a mother AND a father? You believe two of one and none of the other is just as good?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 14/01/2011 10:50:45    846053

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 646

846053 So booboo, you see no value in having a mother AND a father? You believe two of one and none of the other is just as good?

depends on the people concerned - which is the point.

anyway - the real problems for kids is often related to biological parents. we should have some sort of eugenics programmes in force by now - the idea has been knocking around for a century now but I see no action. also, abortion should be free and open to all so that people arent forced to have kids they dont really want or cant look after properly.

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 14/01/2011 11:02:42    846057

yes and as i said statistics back that up. i am genuinely shocked and dismayed that there are people in 2011 with your point of view. As for s slash YOUR AN IDIOT i wonder how you would feel if you had kids or siblings that were gay . and the irony of it ye both come on here more than most critisizing polititians jounalists and annyone elses characteristics unbelivable

booboo (Cork) - Posts: 1382 - 14/01/2011 11:03:47    846059

Horse...if you actually believe that, you're sick. If you're just spouting the odds, then whatever, I'm not interested in answering anything you've got to say.

Booboo...ok, you answered the question honestly, which is more than can be said for most who get asked that question. You don't believe there's any value in having a mother AND a father; that's a pretty radical thing to believe. As for your statistics, when those studies were presented to the High Court in Ireland, in relation to a case about gay rights, a judge stated that 'they should be read with a sceptical eye'. Homosexual adoption is a recent, and very limited, phenomenon, and as such very little authoritative research has actually been conducted.

Depriving a child of their right to a mother AND a father is an extreme step to take, and I don't think you should be so quick to jump to shock and dismay, just because you've encountered someone who believe in the value of fatherhood AND motherhood. Most people still do.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 14/01/2011 12:21:05    846112

seamus thats a fair point .I myself am a father of 1 and of course i can understand the balance of having father and mother but many a father and many a mother have abused their role as parents .It really boils down to individuals of course you say a perfect father and mother should get preference over a homsexual couple but who can deem who the perfect parents are money? jobs? emotionally intact? the fact of the matter is that pre adoption nobody can tell who would make better parents all anyone can do is look a the past studies although recent enough in ireland have been extensively carried out in the US and they do show not only does a child fare just as well with a homosexual couple but in many instances excel further in life. I think people are afraid that should this become widespread it will somhow tear up the fabric of our society but people need to remember homosexuals are citiszens of the the state and deserve the right to be parents also they are subject to the same strict critera for adoption as hetrosexual couple

booboo (Cork) - Posts: 1382 - 14/01/2011 13:57:39    846187

Ok, booboo, I appreciate that you're not engaging with the issue at hand now, and not just hurling words like 'homophobe' about.

Look...I applaud anyone who wishes to raise a child that needs love and care. I'm pro-life, pro-adoption, and I do NOT support an outright ban on gay adoption, or adoption by single people for that matter. I just feel that married men and women should get preference over either gay couples or single people, because ideally I'd want a child to have a mother and a father, as I believe there is an inherent value in having both.

Any fair minded person would say that it's better for a gay couple to be raising a child than for the poor child to be left in some Romanian orphanage. I just feel that married couples should get first preference-obviously they'd have to meet all the criteria just like any other couple.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 14/01/2011 14:51:29    846249