Seamus89

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7043719.ece

"His oft-articulated view that the leaders of the 1916 rising were terrorists is another potential stumbling block. The next president will be in situ for the centenary commemoration of the Easter Rising. It's difficult to imagine President Norris standing proudly at the GPO as the leader of that particular ceremony."

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1795 - 10/01/2011 19:26:33    843379

I know its tokenism, but I do think electing Norris would achieve something worthwhile. Even if it didn't exactly mirror the society we have now, it would be a statement of intent for the progressive society I hope we'd like to become.
But everything else about Senator Norris leaves me cold, I think he's an anachronism in every other sense, even though I do appreciate what he's done for equal rights in this country. We finally deserve a President that is free of all colonial baggage, both positive and negative, and will form relations with all other countries equally. The senators comments on joining The Commonwealth, and his reactions to Folens recent change to their maps, disappointed me. I'd rather our representatives concentrate on a more relevant commonwealth, the European Union, and not just in terms of what we can get out of it.

Ultimately, if the Presidency is able to do anything, I'd like a candidate that would focus on improving the lot of the new Irish, our new (and old) arrivals from the likes of Poland, Nigeria, China, India, Pakistan etc. If a President could focus their term on helping our new citizens feel more welcome and accepted, and help make Ireland a more accepting society, that would make the whole office of President worthwhile. For my money, actually selecting a candidate from our new arrivals would be the ideal way to go. That would really be a statement of intent.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 10/01/2011 19:34:30    843386

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 610



1. First of all, Norris is temperamentally unsuited to the role of President. The President's job is to represent Ireland, not himself or herself, not his or her party, not his or her politicial viewpoint. Can anyone here honestly say that David Norris, loud, opinionated, eccentric, argumentative, is suited to being an impartial ambassador for our republic? You can say what you like about Mary McAleese, but the woman has represented all of us, I say again, ALL of us,

That is 100% of us I presume, another figure you plucked outof the air ?

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 10/01/2011 19:48:41    843413

What Folens decision?

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 10/01/2011 19:55:21    843421

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 610

843282 My faith in the Irish electorate is already at a very low ebb, but if Norris is elected president I will leave this country, ashamed to call myself an Irishman. The thought of him representing us abroad is nauseating, I despise everything about him and what he is, and what he stands for.

Allow me to give my own opinion on what the Sergeant said, and lay out my reasons for opposing his nomination.

1. First of all, Norris is temperamentally unsuited to the role of President. The President's job is to represent Ireland, not himself or herself, not his or her party, not his or her politicial viewpoint. Can anyone here honestly say that David Norris, loud, opinionated, eccentric, argumentative, is suited to being an impartial ambassador for our republic? You can say what you like about Mary McAleese, but the woman has represented all of us, I say again, ALL of us, very well these past 14 years. With Norris, it would be about him, not the country, and not the office.

2. The man was born in Africa somewhere, the son of a British soldier, and an Irish Protestant. He speaks with a pronounced British accent, and clearly regards Elizabeth Windsor as his queen. Good for him. But his accent, opinions and identity is not that of the Irishman on the street. He's Trinity College, Anglicised to the core, and when he represents us abroad, what will foreign leaders think of him? Their first reaction will be very simple; why is an Englishman representing Ireland here?

You have revealed most of the common prejudices there. Africa "somewhere" has a nice ring to it, touch of the "my man " about it. I dont think anyone has a choice in how their parents made a living, as for the protestant bit, I thought you were into tolereance, i assume you didn't approve of our first president or Mr childers either, or come to think of it our present one either as she attended Queens and Trinity.






3. I truly abhor the way he uses the media. I was at the Student Media Awards in 2009, and guess who walked in in front of me, and later gave a speech? David Norris.


Had he not as much right as you to be there or was it the fact that he walked ahead of you the issue? Did the Ushers not make good your entry.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 10/01/2011 20:12:58    843435

roundball
County: Tipperary
Posts: 1186

843329 Would not vote for Norris. He is grand as a senator but too much of a self promoter and too frivillous to be President for me.

I'd vote for Michael D. Higgins. He represents a lot of what I think is good about Ireland, his interest in the arts, his interest in sport and above all his campaigning for social justice. As a voter I would be slightly inclined towards Labour and Higgins would be my favourite Labour TD.

In fairness he was one of the better TDs , but he seems to have vanished since last election. Came out lately to promote himself. Not sure of his age but seems to be well past it, The presidency should not be a retirement home.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 10/01/2011 20:19:41    843452

Are the people who volunteer for local charities, who raise money for the poor in Africa, who go abroad to work for free, all conservative church loving people.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 10/01/2011 20:26:24    843462

Seamus89 - agree with most of what you said there. I dont feel the man represents me as an Irish citizen and I dont believe in alot of what he says. however i wouldnt have bertie anywhere near it either.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11689 - 10/01/2011 21:19:26    843539

Silly in this day and age to ignore the elephant in the room. Alot of people may have a problem with David Norris because he is gay. I personally find this ridiculous but sadly it would be a problem for some people.

He has been a tireless civil rights campaign and shown great integrity and dignity in the face of aloof of small minded abuse. I think he would make a good president.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 10/01/2011 21:45:55    843582

Bad monkey

My original post, and it was up and then removed, addressed the gay issue. It is not a problem as far as I'm concerned that he's gay. But I do object to the way he uses it as a political issue, and tries to get elected because of it. I'm not even sure will this be posted, sadly there's a lot of censorship on this forum.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 10/01/2011 21:54:48    843602

The man is a west brit, pro partionist, unionist, revisionist, union jack waving, anti Irish, so and so. He doesnt represent mainstream Irish life in any way, shape or form. A President should be someone who values their country, its history, heritage and their nationality dearly. Norris clearly does not.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 10/01/2011 21:54:55    843603

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 613

What Folens decision?

I guess its not a big deal, and I'm conscious of being labeled over-sensitive, but Folens changed their maps in childrens schoolbooks so that the term British Isles wasn't applied to the Republic, which I thought was fair enough (I've always thought it akin to referring to Portugal and Spain as Greater Spain). I wouldn't have expected it to be a move criticized by an Irish Senator, of little consequence really I guess, but Senator Norris did criticize the decision, saying '"We are in a group of islands and the most dominant is Britain. We were part of the British Empire and we are an independent country now. But I don't think we can or should discard our history."

Its not so much the criticism, but the flimsy reasons he gave, especially the history aspect. We're suffocated by our history, and we're constantly encouraged, quite rightly, to move on and leave daft old grudges in the past. But the Senator seems to take an a la carte approach to this. You either move on or you don't. It just made him seem a bit narrow minded. That said, I do still respect him for what he's done for gay rights in this country.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 10/01/2011 21:57:04    843608

Sure, arent you just as well voting for the president of your local Lions club or whatever, such is the utter pointlessness of the position of State President. Abolish the position completely I say or at least give the role some executive power.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 11/01/2011 11:08:35    843750

brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3016

843750
Sure, arent you just as well voting for the president of your local Lions club or whatever, such is the utter pointlessness of the position of State President. Abolish the position completely I say or at least give the role some executive power.


As a Republic, you need to have a president as the head of state. Who is in that role is of little importance but one must be there.

Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 11/01/2011 13:52:54    843909

Dr.Shephard
County: Leitrim
Posts: 1888

843909 brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3016

843750
Sure, arent you just as well voting for the president of your local Lions club or whatever, such is the utter pointlessness of the position of State President. Abolish the position completely I say or at least give the role some executive power.


As a Republic, you need to have a president as the head of state. Who is in that role is of little importance but one must be there.
---------------------------------
I understand the constitutional element ok Dr, what I'm trying to say is that the role of president could do with a little more teeth so to speak, in which case you make the position more dynamic and attract more worthy candidates than those who just like the idea of swanning off around the globe, cutting ribbons and pretendeing that you're important.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 11/01/2011 14:20:45    843935

Sergeant absolutely spot on.

A President should be someone who values their country, its history, heritage and their nationality dearly.



His disdain for the men and women of 1916 (warts and all) clearly rules him out. If he is elected the Irish nation should immediately apply for membership of the commonwealth. I have seen him on TV rcently and he looks and sounds no different from every other gombeen politician. God forbid I would rather have Dana.....or even Margo for that matter.

thistle_harps (UK) - Posts: 879 - 11/01/2011 14:36:05    843955

He's British, plain and simple. Let him go to the House of Lords and represent his own kind.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 11/01/2011 15:38:50    844019

make ms ireland the president every year- is a token position that means nothing so why not project a decent image of ireland when we are at it a let some bimbo do it.

liathroidboy (Mayo) - Posts: 4921 - 11/01/2011 16:46:30    844088

seamus you say hes a brit well some may say the lady in office now is also .the man has integrity values articulate and knows more about irish culture than a lot of the bigots on here , we are a multi ethnic society so what if he was born in africa look at what the irish born polititians we have put into office have done to this country. dont worry s slash or seamus you both will have a vote and i respect your right to do so but if he gets a nomination he will be hard stopped

booboo (Cork) - Posts: 1382 - 11/01/2011 17:08:40    844125

booboo
County: Cork
Posts: 357

844125
seamus you say hes a brit well some may say the lady in office now is also .the man has integrity values articulate and knows more about irish culture than a lot of the bigots on here , we are a multi ethnic society so what if he was born in africa look at what the irish born polititians we have put into office have done to this country. dont worry s slash or seamus you both will have a vote and i respect your right to do so but if he gets a nomination he will be hard stopped

Unfortunately, I fear you could be correct. But where will the values enshrined in the writings of our patriot dead be, if we elect a man who idolizes the British Empire? Nearly 100 years of freedom, a freedom sealed by the blood that was spilled in the GPO, and subsequently in the War of Independence, and we still havnt fully embraced our ancient Celtic roots. We will be linked forever with Britain if the mentality continues, and David Norris has no intention of going abroad and describing Ireland's history, the way it deserves to be told.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 11/01/2011 17:32:20    844156