What I find unsettling is that people believe that a big nice giant lives in the Sky and he created the Universe in six days and we are all going to live for ever and ever and ever. Such people cant be taken serious.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 30/11/2010 15:35:54    825254

Is it not seven days Paddy?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 30/11/2010 15:44:58    825263

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1001

825263 Is it not seven days Paddy?

I remember from the Cult that he rested on the seventh day. I should remember we had to repeat it over and over again in an attempt at brainwashing.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 30/11/2010 15:53:00    825272

Oh thats right,remember to keep holy the sabbath day and all.I can tell by your post that you are grateful for the sound schooling that you received.Your schooling of course having played a large part in making you the man you are today.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 30/11/2010 16:14:36    825287

Seanie,

Those English public boarding schools are notorious for making people sad and bitter.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 30/11/2010 20:03:21    825492

What I posted earlier was my experience not a justification or condemnation of any organisation or individual. Neither was it meant to exonerate any individual from responsibility of their own actions. To interpret it as as justification for any violence is simply mischief making and does not deserve an answer. But some posts did raise points that I wish to give my view on.

Is the entire recent struggle to be regarded in the light of the horrendous murder of a young woman delivering census forms or any other single unjustifiable act?
Are all volunteers to be judged on the actions of the perpetrators of these acts?
Will we regard the allied war against the Nazis in the light of the unjustifiable and indefensible bombing of Dresden or other unjustified acts (Hiroshima and Nagasaki)?
Are we to judge all allied leaders by the order given to carry out this bombing?
Will we judge all of the US army and people on Mai Lai?
Should we now after these things have passed ostracise Great Britain and the US and every subsequent politician of these two great countries because of the unjustifiable actions that were carried out in their name?
It has been pointed out what a redemptorist Priest said in Belfast ((A Jesuit may have seen it different) no doubt some one will get hung upon the bracketed phrase.)) Can I point out what was said about an earlier conflict on this Island?

The Bishop of Kilmore, Dr. Finnegan, said: "Any war… to be just and lawful must be backed by a well grounded hope of success. What hope of success have you against the mighty forces of the British Empire? None… none whatever and if it unlawful as it is, every life taken in pursuance of it is murder." Thomas Gilmartin, the Archbishop of Tuam, issued a letter saying that IRA men who took part in ambushes "have broken the truce of God, they have incurred the guilt of murder."[61] However in May 1921, Pope Benedict XV dismayed the British government when he issued a letter that exhorted the "English as well as Irish to calmly consider . . . some means of mutual agreement", as they had been pushing for a condemnation of the rebellion. They declared that his comments "put HMG (His Majesty's Government) and the Irish murder gang on a footing of equality".

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 11:55:00    825717

Once again we are speaking of the Old Ira and the Provo's.

The British tried to portray the IRA as anti-Protestant in order to encourage loyalism in Irish Protestants and win sympathy for their harsh tactics in Britain. For example, in their communiqués they would always mention the religion of spies or collaborators the IRA had killed if the victim was Protestant, but not if they were Catholic (which was more often), trying to give the impression, in Ireland and abroad, that the IRA were slaughtering Protestants. They encouraged newspaper editors, often forcefully, to do the same.[citation needed] In the summer of 1921, a series of articles appeared in a London magazine, entitled "Ireland under the New Terror, Living Under Martial Law". While purporting to be an impartial account of the situation in Ireland, it portrayed the IRA in a very unfavourable light when compared with the British forces.

The above was written in regard to the war of independence. It is possibly worth noting that the British did not lose their talents of misinformation but refined and honed them. I have very good personal first hand evidence of this. The great difference between the old IRA and The Provo's was the tools at hand and the availability of them. Nothing else, a cursory glance at the war of independence and the following civil war right through to 1941 should show that. It is not my desire to cast doubt or aspersion or defame individuals but think of these selected events. West Cork after the treaty, Ballyseedy during the civil war and Coventry and the London underground.

Now in regard to the personal attack on myself and my faith. I am told I am a devout catholic and a staunch one to boot. (I wonder does the use of the word staunch give credibility to some aspersions used against this poster).Well I try to get to mass most Sundays. When the Catholic faith comes under attack on this forum I have been known to attempt to explain my position in my faith. It is possibly also worth noting that it is attacked often and defended poorly but I do keep trying. Now does that make me devout? I shouldn't think so. Perhaps my accuser should read the bible which has been used against me by another. I would direct any party wishing to understand what I am saying to the Parable of the workers in the vineyard and the story of Mary Magdalene. Also a short reflection on the crucifixion accounts might also show why I am unable to condemn anyone personally. I can refer to many other tales and stories in the bible but unfortunately I am not so devout as to be able to give you chapter and verse.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 11:55:48    825720

The great difference between the old IRA and The Provo's was the tools at hand and the availability of them. Nothing else, a cursory glance at the war of independence and the following civil war right through to 1941 should show that.
The above does not read well so let me try again.

The great difference between the old IRA and The Provo's was the tools at hand and the availability of them, nothing else. A cursory glance at the progression of the IRA through the war of independence and the civil war right through to 1941 should show that.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 12:43:32    825746

A good few people get annoyed by Doherty winning a seat which to be honest amuses me.Prepare to be annoyed a whole lot more.

northpole (Derry) - Posts: 739 - 01/12/2010 14:11:41    825793

North pole I do hope you are right. I firmly believe when we have a strong Sinn Fein party in both jurisdictions and people see that the world has not stopped turning on its axis they will see that their Ideals and goals are not only legitimate but obtainable.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 16:46:29    825930

ideals and goals are fine. But its how they will achieve those goals is the key question. The Sinn Fein candidates were embarrassing when asked about specifics in the last GE. Its easy to talk in generalities - 'we want freedom, equality for all...etc'

As for Martin Ferris, collecting the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe from prison (which was supported by Sinn Fein TDs).... this says it all about them.

How can they support the killing of Gardai and yet expect people to vote them into government?

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 01/12/2010 17:03:28    825950

Good lord talk about living in he past

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 17:16:26    825958

How can they support the killing of Gardai and yet expect people to vote them into government?

They supported the Killers of of Gardai. Not the killing. There is a distinct difference and it was because of that support that they managed to bring The republican movement along. People will vote for them because of the honesty they have shown in this example and otherrs. They did not use these people as pawns to be discarded when the heat was on to gain votes they have stood by their beliefs and supported their members . In truth they are the only honest party on these isles. That honesty has cost them dearly in the electoral stakes but it is changing.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 17:27:38    825974

How can they support the killing of Gardai and yet expect people to vote them into government?

Stop Lying.No member of Sinn Fein ever expressed support for the killing of Garda Mc Cabe.I believe it was made clear that his death was very much regretted and condolences were expressed at the time.It is also an indicator of loyalty and friendship to stand by those you believe to have done wrong,it is what being a true friend is all about.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 01/12/2010 17:54:23    825996

so are the PIRA now the old IRA and the RIRA the new freedom fighters ?

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 01/12/2010 18:03:57    826003

ideals and goals are fine. But its how they will achieve those goals is the key question. The Sinn Fein candidates were embarrassing when asked about specifics in the last GE. Its easy to talk in generalities - 'we want freedom, equality for all...etc'

Well I will certainly accept they do not Lie as well as the incumbents and their green partners

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 18:14:38    826015

hipster
County: Dublin
Posts: 1999

826003 so are the PIRA now the old IRA and the RIRA the new freedom fighters ?

If we continue to marginalise Sinn Fein and the great steps they have taken I am afraid your words may become prophetic. For 40 years we were told there is a political path now we are being told you are not wanted on this path. What do you think is the likely result of this blatent discrimination for no reason other than to mollify 20% of the population who themselves have actually embraced the political process.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 18:45:50    826038

derryman so what you are saying is vote fo r sinn fein or they will be more violence. That is not how democracy works.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 01/12/2010 18:52:26    826046

derryman - blatant discrimination? not voting for a party is not discrimination. why do sinn feiners always play the victim, it belittles actual victims of discrimination. Threatening there will be violence if sinn fein doesnt get votes is exactly the reason why people wont vote for them.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 01/12/2010 19:07:37    826058

What is wrong with you people every time I ask people to accept that Sinn Fein are on political path and to judge them on their current position and ethos I am accused of threatening violence if you do not vote for them. What I am asking of you is let the present be the springboard for the future do not let the past be the stumbling block of it. I am asking that we supporters of sinn fein are given the right to progress our agenda without constantly being harrassed. I am asking you to accept that some 15% plus of the population of this Island do support Sinn Fein and it is the great personal and political risks that the leadership has taken that now allows us to contemplate a future free of violence. It is now clear that to a great extent the republican movement is commited to peace. What I am saying is if Sinn Fein are hijacked again with well timed breaking disininformation. if Sinn Fein and their supporters are marginalised again then the vacuum that this creates will be filled once again by generations of young Irishmen who will rightfully feel that there is no political path for republicans. That is not threatening violence it is learning from the past not pushing it around as an obstacle to the future.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 01/12/2010 19:15:38    826063