I for one admire John Hume as much as I admire any man now alive, and I would love that all Irish politicians had the same strength of character as he does.

The greatest strength of character he showed was to bring Sinn Fein into mainstream politics against the wishes of every other party on these Islands including his own. Perhaps some posters could really study the Man John Hume and learn from him that excluding Republicans is the same thing as saying to them you have no right to vote , there is no place for you in politics. I always find it strange that people present Hume as a great man and then undermine the greatest contribution he made to Ireland. It really does show they do not understand the situation at all

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 26/11/2010 21:51:18    823640

seamus89.
i am not asking for clarifacation of our nationalistic credentials seamus , all i am saying is your post sounded far to way biased against the plight we had to endure for years , now your second part of the post well i mean that is terrible .I KNOW . but it has taken a bit of a backlash before you have mentioned atrocities carried out by british state forces thats it really , as for provosional acts i am sorry these things have taken place , i do not condone that but that was the dirty nature of war and things that should never have happened i agree .. but we had to do something i am sure you appreciate that .. we could not stand idle .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 26/11/2010 21:54:11    823641

john hume is a great man , he never gave up i agree and always wanted everyone on board , history will put this man on a great standing . good post derryman , agree with 100%.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 26/11/2010 21:57:13    823644

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 455

823413
That's not the way it will play out Pomeroy. Sinn Fein will probably increase their number of TD's quite considerably at the next election, maybe go from 5 to between 10 and 15. But they won't be in government, and having more TD's will just mean that there will be more of them droning on about ridiculous Marxoid policies that they believe will work. I'll go mad listening to them.

There is a number of Sinn Fein TD's that I would like, and the number is a big round zero. Also, obviously I'd much prefer if nationalist voters in the North would vote for the SDLP rather than a lunatic group soaked in the blood of innocent men, women and children.

What are you going on about man,sure the Orange Order do not contest elections in the north.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 27/11/2010 09:40:18    823656

Well done Pearse Doherty and Sinn Fein.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 27/11/2010 09:50:43    823658

Exactly Derryman,they laud Hume for his efforts and then criticize the results of those efforts,idiotic.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 27/11/2010 19:06:20    823868

Seamus89 Ah you see there is your problem you only think you know about the troubles but the fact is that you do not , Oh by the way pomeroy imposter is not a nationilist

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 27/11/2010 19:16:50    823876

ha you see there is your problem you only think you know about the troubles but the fact is that you do not , Oh by the way pomeroy imposter is not a nationilist

I know all I need to know. I know about the murderers who caused so much pain to so many people, be they SAS, UVF, IRA, UDA, INLA, Para UDR or RUC. A curse on all their houses. And as for 'Pomeroy imposter', I didn't identify him as a nationalist, but if I used the term 'nationalist', I was referring to Irish citizens in the 6 counties, those who have not participated in murderous and pointless 40 year terrorist campaign.

And as for the earlier comment about me being hyprocritical for praising John Hume, given that he talked to terrorists, all I'll say is read your Bible. Sure Jesus spoke with the Devil himself, but it doesn't mean he was anything like him.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 27/11/2010 21:22:41    823924

Seamus89
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 457

You have made it quite clear that you have a great deal of distaste for Sinn Fein and the procivisional movement due to bombings, shootings, loss of innocent civilians, etc.. I wonder do you share these same views on the people who won you your freedom from 1916-22.

The brits didn't leave the south because the people where throwing flour and eggs at them!!!!!!

No.15 (Down) - Posts: 193 - 27/11/2010 21:40:53    823936

Seamus let me try to answer your post here. I would make it clear that I am offering my thoughts only. I am representing neither a church or political party.
What you know Seamus is what you have read in very biased media reports because your comments suggest you have not read unbiased commentary. I would suggest that you start with Peter Taylor. I would also suggest that you read a history of the failed state of Northern Ireland pre 1969. However you are entitled to your opinion, What you are not entitled to do is deny myself and others like me political representation. You have used two great men to further your argument that Sinn Fein should be excluded and that I am afraid flys in the face of the teachings of both men.
Jesus Christ if my bible is correct did not speak with the devil but on one occasion spoke to him. But no matter Jesus did speak with the sinners and tax collectors. In fact jesus set about showing sinful man that he was like them in all things but sin. He showed them abetter way. I would suggest that John Hume made it clear to republicans that he was like them in all things but the armed struggle. He showed them and assisted themin following a better path. You and many posters like you would deny the followers of Sinn Fein that path. And in doing so would drive Ireland back to more generations of armed struggle. It was the denial of representation that caused the commitment to armed struggle to become ingrained in Irish determination to be free. It is your right not to vote for them it is my right to do so and your rhetoric is ill advised in a nation trying to rebuild after centuries of colonial misrule.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 28/11/2010 13:17:56    823982

1. I have read Peter Taylor. His book, 'Provos', was excellent. I have also read a wide variety of historical books, from Tim Pat Coogan to Ed Moloney and Richard English. I've also read the personal accounts of former IRA terrorists, such as Sean O'Callaghan and Eamon Collins. And I've read sympathetic biographies of leading Republican figures such as Joe Cahill, as well as books written by Gerry Adams. I have a detailed knowledge of what happened in Ireland in that period, as well as the awful state of affairs pre-1969. I'm not boasting, I'm just explaining where I acquired my opinions about IRA/Sinn Fein.

2. No, you are not correct. Jesus spoke to the devil. 'Man does not live by bread alone', 'Thou shall not put the Lord thy God to the test'. Ring any bells?

3. As for John Hume talking to Sinn Fein, absolutely, it was a good thing. It got the slightly less insane Provos to accept that murdering people to achieve territorial unity was never going to work, and they in turn managed to convince the brave men who planted bombs in urban areas and then ran away that they were not going to succeed. But as for your basic point, yes, you have a right to vote SF. And you have a right to defend them. Just as I have a right to call them murderers (they are) and terrorists (they are) whose campaign failed miserably (it did).

Free speech wins out, and everyone is happy. I'm glad we found some common ground.

Seamus89 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 3848 - 28/11/2010 14:38:15    823997

There is a difference to speaking with and speaking to. I notice now that you accept Jesus spoke TO the devil as I did point out. Jesus and John Hume spoke of inclusion you speak of exclusion . Exclusion is what caused the problemin Ireland you would perpetuate that. If you vote for either Fianna Fail or Fine gael you also vote for the parties born from the Irish struggle as I do and are equally as guilty or innocent as Sinn Fein. " Let him without sin cast the first Stone"

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 28/11/2010 16:28:52    824041

Seamus89 So you read books and you think then your correct , so what about the way the british security forces treated the nationlist up north ?

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 28/11/2010 16:45:13    824053

dell same old thrash out of you , read seamus posts and we all know what happened up there

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 28/11/2010 17:39:00    824080

I find it strange Derryman that you seem to be a religious person and yet openly support a terrorist group that killed and maimed thousands upon thousands of people. How does that work exactly? I'm not overly religious myself but I'm pretty sure killing people is generally considered a no-no

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 28/11/2010 18:20:26    824100

I have not supported any violence. I support the ideals and goals of Sinn Fein. I understand why good men are driven to acts of vioplence and am aware that ther but for the grace of God go I. I condemn all violence

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 28/11/2010 18:40:09    824120

So you condemn the actions of the IRA yet support their political wing? I guess condemning the actions of those terrorists is a start

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 28/11/2010 19:35:49    824155

I thought this was about snooker and Ken was back on track.

ah well.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 28/11/2010 20:17:46    824188

Its all very good pontificating from down in Kilkenny my good man,but you can only turn the other cheek so far before you would break your own neck.By the way,if the Catholic Church had ever stood united with its flock these problems would have been over a long time ago.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 28/11/2010 20:37:29    824214

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1958

824155 So you condemn the actions of the IRA yet support their political wing? I guess condemning the actions of those terrorists is a start

The IRA had to stick up for the poeple who where treated badly by the british goverment and security forces so do not try and play that hand .

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 28/11/2010 20:40:00    824215