derryman where do you see ireland in 5 years and please dont say a fianna fail government , i would hope to see proper politics and no more cronie captalism and if sinn fein or fine gael or labour are the ones to lead this fight so be it , i would not vote against sinn fein because of their past but i would vote against them if i thought their policies were wrong and i would say that is all you want people to do . i hate hearing people who hate sinn fein because its the popular thing to say but i also hate shinners who will not criticise sinn fein as they think they would be traitors debating is good for partys and maybe if fianna fail had done this they would not be so rotten to the core

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 06/12/2010 20:46:35    828648

Dell no offence meant. But some of your posts Like my own indeed leave something to be desired. I always read mine before pushing the add message key and still get it wrong

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 06/12/2010 21:09:03    828674

Hipster
Sinn Fein have a lot of baggage and there are many things which they supported in the past that they could not now countenance. Not only is it imperative that others draw a line under the recent history but that Sinn Fein supporters do also. We can not expect to attract support if we keep dragging up the past and try to give it justification. We must however try to understand why and we must paint the portrait "Warts and all". I do think the current leadership are attempting to do this but it is difficult because they must be careful that they do not alienate and thus disenfranchise the republican movement. I do wonder sometimes if indeed Gerry Adams is not making a transition from being the partys greatest asset to their greatest liability that however is something for smarter people than I to decide.
I would hope that the next election will see a FG and labour coalition government and I do hope that they renegotiate the terms of the bailout and where possible default. I hope and pray that Labour is strong enough to hold the values of the party and be the social conscience. They must be careful not to end up like the greens. Against this I would hope that Sinn Fein become the principal opposition and FF are sent off into the wilderness for at least two Dails to repent and reinvent. So therefore in 5 years I would hope that Sinn Fein have proven themselves as capable and trustworthy. That they go into the election after next being seen as a viable Junior partners in government with labour. Indeed it would be fitting that if in 2016 Sinn Fein were part of the government in both jurisdictions.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 06/12/2010 21:29:03    828690

derryman

"We can not expect to attract support if we keep dragging up the past and try to give it justification"

.....................................................

SF supporters on this forum are not the ones "dragging up the past". I am confident in my own beliefs and do not feel it necessary to justify past events, I am perfectly willing to move forward and debate the future, however I am proud of the IRA and will not hide that fact to placate or attract the support of hypocritical staters.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 06/12/2010 21:40:39    828703

very well put derryman i can say at least your been honest and your not setting the benchmark to high i would imagine sinn fein getting about 10 seats this time around and hoping to get at least 15 next time , what would be wrong now with a fine gael labour and sinn fein coalition at least then they would have total control of the dail and would be able concentrate on getting this country back on track instead of worrying about dail votes , but this is ireland and people still vote civil war politics woe is us

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 06/12/2010 21:42:16    828705

I would be delighted to vote sinn féin if the formulated a proper and coherent economic policy which they currently don't have. Also, being anti european for the sake of it is not good enough. I have no problem with voting against the lisbon treaty once it was for reasonable reasons, not for declan ganley ridiculousness.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 06/12/2010 21:48:23    828714

The sinn fein website sells IRA t-shirts and publishes statements by the IRA . How sinn feiners have the gall to accuse others of not moving is incredible.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 06/12/2010 21:49:35    828716

Great point Badmonkey. We also have lads on here who are proud of the IRA. Yet they tell us to move on!

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 07/12/2010 09:19:33    828739

Derryman, I think the Shinners ambitions are a bit higher than becoming a 'junior partner' with the hated Labour party in five years time! As for labour they will do what they have always done and back up a right wing FG government. I am not slagging you but if you think that Labour will get us out of the IMF bailout you are deluding yourself.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 07/12/2010 10:09:54    828748

Good point bad.monkey, just had a quick look at their website and found this page of items for sale:

http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35&osCsid=107211e3851f35cac54c2c05eceed23f


What an absoulte disgrace of a 'party', like I said before no terrorist group should be let anywhere near normal society and certainly nowhere near any positions of power.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 07/12/2010 11:09:33    828765

Htaem
County: Meath
Posts: 2121

828765 Good point bad.monkey, just had a quick look at their website and found this page of items for sale:

http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35&osCsid=107211e3851f35cac54c2c05eceed23f


What an absoulte disgrace of a 'party', like I said before no terrorist group should be let anywhere near normal society and certainly nowhere near any positions of power.

So therefore according to this :- The American the French the South African governments are all Illigitimate never mention the ROI and that is is only a few a little research will uncover many many more.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/12/2010 11:42:15    828780

Here we go, the hypocrites are out in force while they sit in their offices/living rooms without a British Army check point in sight ! Tell me lads, what Ghandi like movement won the 26 Counties their freedom ? Are some people ashamed of the men who won their freedom ? Perhaps if FF had stayed true to the Republican cause it was born out of, then maybe the State would not be in the castrophic situation it currently finds itself.

The SF bookshop is also selling a book about Bobby Sands which was launched 6 months ago in Rome by the Vice President of the European Parliament, Roberta Angelilli MEP at the launch spoke of the admiration and respect she had for the Irish H-Block martyrs, an admiration which was shared by the people of Fermanagh-South Tyrone, Cavan-Monaghan and Louth who elected blanketmen as their representatives.

Democracy is to allow the people to voice their opinion, yet some 'democrats' on this forum appear to advocate the return of section 31 and internment without trial or charge. Maybe if some posters had the experience of being stopped at a UDR check point on a lonely roadside they would hold vastly different opinions, as it is thanks to the generation that came before they were spared this; they were spared being brought up as 2nd class citizens in an apartheid State.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 07/12/2010 12:19:47    828813

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2566

828716
The sinn fein website sells IRA t-shirts and publishes statements by the IRA . How sinn feiners have the gall to accuse others of not moving is incredible.

Sinn Fein have done more to secure peace than any other political party.There was a timeline of events for those of you too blinkered to be magnanimous.There was a ceasefire,negotiations leading to GFA,the setting up of the northern executive and assembly,decommissioning.What more do you want? Oh I know,you all want to be in the union again!

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 07/12/2010 12:20:07    828814

Artisan I certainly was not referring to you and I agree that sinn fein supporters do not seem to be stuck in the past , Hurling dub I only offered my own opinion as a direct answer to a genuine qoestion. This is only my opinion/hope and nothing else. We have to start somewhere. As regards the negative posters I wonder from what perspective they view the history of this Island or if they in fact have any knowledge of it at all. The one thing I have learned is that sweeping generalisations offer little to any debate and only succeed in entrenching the poster in positions of ignorance. But you only have to read this thread from my answer to hipster in order to get some idea of the tightrope Sinn Fein must walk

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/12/2010 12:22:32    828815

Can't go into great detail here cause eircom are hopeless idiots but all I'll say derryman is that you can't possibly defend a 'political party' selling terrorist merchandise. They served a purpose many years but for the last 70+ years they have been a complete disgrace and for what its worth so has uvf and etc etc. Now I have more pressing issues to deal with.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 07/12/2010 12:53:57    828846

To those of you who say you cannot vote for Sinn Fein on the grounds that their policies are suspect. I would point out that a vote for FG is a vote for a window dressed extension of FF policies. As policies go Sinn Feins are way ahead of Labours, ifs ,buts and maybes we still dont know where they stand . The greens are surely not being considered by anyone and as other posters have pointed out a vote for an independent is a wasted vote.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/12/2010 12:54:42    828850

Htaem
County: Meath
Posts: 2122

828846 Can't go into great detail here cause eircom are hopeless idiots but all I'll say derryman is that you can't possibly defend a 'political party' selling terrorist merchandise. They served a purpose many years but for the last 70+ years they have been a complete disgrace and for what its worth so has uvf and etc etc. Now I have more pressing issues to deal with.

So I am allright jack!

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/12/2010 13:01:00    828857

I point out that the Sinn Fein websites sells triumphalist IRA T-Shirts now, in the present, today. And then we have Derryman and artisan immediately harking back to the foundations of the Republic/America...etc and yet sinnfeiners continue to accuse others of living in the past!

It seems you want everyone else to move on but you dont have to - I mean Sinn Fein post IRA statements on their website!. You want to judge every other politician and their actions but no one else can judge sinn feiners or else they are accused of discrimination. You slate every other party but again if someone criticises sinn fein they are discriminating. Playing the poor victim might wash in NI but it wont in the Republic.

If Sinn Fein put themselves before the people for election, they should face the reality they they will be judged on their actions past/present

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 07/12/2010 13:26:57    828878

Htaem
County: Meath
Posts: 2122

828846 Can't go into great detail here cause eircom are hopeless idiots but all I'll say derryman is that you can't possibly defend a 'political party' selling terrorist merchandise. They served a purpose many years but for the last 70+ years they have been a complete disgrace and for what its worth so has uvf and etc etc. Now I have more pressing issues to deal with.

I am allright Jack!!!

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/12/2010 13:29:51    828880

And, it must be said - 'amnesia is the handmaiden of hypocrisy' - which is basically what George Santayana meant when he wrote: 'Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to fulfil it.'

This quotation just seemed apt.
The right to Judge or vote for us or not is not being debated. What is being debated is the selective criticsm and the warped sense of history, FG and FF are rooted in the same struggle and are acceped as part of the political Landscape of Ireland,

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 07/12/2010 14:17:53    828905