Its all to do with greed for money.......THATS WHAT BROUGHT THE COUNTRY TO ITS KNEES AND WILL BRING THE GAA TO ITS KNEES ALSO. BECAUSE CLUBS CANT AFFORD IT

richiej (UK) - Posts: 1430 - 25/11/2010 11:31:53    822499

Oricelt- Managers do not run up expenses of 150 euro a night. I think paying phone expenses should be the most, after all dont players use petrol/diesel to get to trainings too and they done get fuel expenses

890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 25/11/2010 12:39:30    822542

What happened to the club manager who use to do it for nothing barr a few minor expenses.....Nowadays its a merry go round just like the county scene.....Clubs are now even employing managers from previously hated rivals and managers are taking these jobs all for money..Funds raised now by clubs are used to pay managers rather than being used for coaching......its the slippery slope

richiej (UK) - Posts: 1430 - 25/11/2010 12:48:26    822547

These days you get nothing for nothing. Looking misty eyed in to the past will do no good. People can be cheapskates all they like. The simple fact is that these days time is precious. Any manager worth his salt will put a lot of time and effort in to a job. They have to, of necessity put more time in to the job than is required of players to play the game. Since most managers are married men with families that is time way from their families. Clubs should not expect to get that time for nothing. Eighty euro a night is reasonable. Any more and the club should say no.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 26/11/2010 16:48:52    823429

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Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 26/11/2010 17:01:42    823438

Sounds like you are drinking from that particular trough Greengrass.

80 euro a night is not reasonable, clubs should say no to paying them and get club members back managing teams, which every club is more than able to do. How can you justify 80 euro a night? If they did that 3 nights a week that is 240 a week. That is 120 lottery tickets for most clubs and it is unfair to expect club members to be out there begging for money by selling tickets to pay some fellah to come to train the team. Madness of the highest order and one which I am totally opposed to, always have been and always will be.

It'd be great if all clubs turned their back on these outsiders, because none of them care about the club when all is said and done, the only reason they want the club to do well is self serving and because the further the team gets the more goes into their pocket.

Have no problem giving players a few quid for petrol expenses and club-based managers a few quid for a phone.

And it is not a misty eyed past as you suggest - it is looking at what is right and fair and in the interest of clubs and their members.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 29/11/2010 17:24:47    824669

Clubs decide what is in their best interests not you Pinkie. If a club decides that is in their best interests to take in an outside manager then that is what they will do and the best of luck to them. Like I said time with a family is precious. It doesn't come for free. You have made your point well and are entitled to your opinion. I don't drink from the trough. I have a very young family and in these times it is important to spend time with them. Remember no club is forced to take in outside managers . They all do it willingly. Should success follow then no one complains. Eighty euro a night is reasonable in my opinion. I know of clubs who pay considerably more.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 29/11/2010 17:38:45    824688

To answer the question there is a club here who pay over 200 a night! Now that is a lot of lottery tickets a week! Should they be paid, the answer is no, they should not but a practice has developed in the boom times and its a matter of depending on how wealthy a club is and whether the key men in the club consider that an outside man will be the answer.

I do not think that the current situation is sustainable and there has been a merry go round in many counties where if a manager has won a county title the belief has been that he has to be good and he then can charge more and more clubs seek his expertise! A merry go round where the players may have 2 or 3 managers in a very short time and this may not be good for the team and the club.

There are plenty of good club people out there who have the ability to manage teams and are not being used by their clubs... a prophet ... and all that!

For the clubs to continue, county boards must now be honest and declare that they will no longer give the 'expenses' that heretofore has been given, and then clubs should also be informed that club managers cannot be given more than the permitted expenses.

Look at society and what has happened in the most recent week to see that it now has become unacceptable for people to be paid above the normal wage... look at the treatment of a national general secretary of a union in Dublin over the weekend!

So, whether a manager spends time away from home or not, is not the question, the real situation is that people will not tolerate managers being there for the pay, anymore. This situation is being reflected a lot more and will soon be fazed out!!!! Wishful thinking... I believe so, but wish that it was otherwise!

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1883 - 29/11/2010 19:22:01    824783

I agree Carlowman. The clubs will decide what's best for them. Ultimately they will decide the going rate. One thing that n eeds to be acknowledged is that clubs will do absolutely anything to gain an edge. If they feel they will gain an edge by employing a manager they will do that. I agree that there will be less paid to managers but paid they will be. You get nothing for nothing in this country.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 29/11/2010 20:40:42    824865

Dont know if any other club treasurers on here but having nearly finished the set of accounts for this year (reasonably good shape except for one abnormal and unbelievable expense, ahem...) I will be recommending we do not pay an external man to manage any of the hurling and football teams in the club next year or in future beyond my tenure. We paid a manager €70 a night last year and to say he was certainly nothing special would be an understatement.

Just looking at some of the names bandied around on this circus in Wexford would make you laugh. Some of them were not even good hurlers and yet they get €60-70 a night to run a team around a pitch is more than I, as an elected tresurer of a club, am willing to put up with.

The sooner the clubs unite to put an end to this practice, the better. I think there are people who are more than capable of training a club team within every club. I have no problem with paying for a few club members to go on a GAA coaching course or two (although in fairness most pay out of their own pocket), or to give a manager a few quid for his phone calls, or petrol (for players and managers) expenses, all for that and dont think any player at present, given the state of the country, should be out of pocket for playing GAA - money is tight and I dont have a problem reimbursing club members for their expenses.

Greengrass - your claim that "you get nothing for nothing" is false. The only expense claimed by players within our club this year was for buses from Dublin for 2 students and 1 from Waterford got a few quid for petrol but brought 5 of them home for matches and training. Nobody who volunteers to do anything else within the club (be they lotto ticket sellers or organisers, lads training underage hurling teams, pitch markers, etc) asked for a penny to be reimbursed for their expenses. Because these people see the benefits of the club and unity and friendships it gives the people of the area and the enjoyment they give everyone from 6 years old to 60 years old playing and watching teams play. It is not all about money - unfortunately a few like you seem to have forgotten that.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 30/11/2010 13:33:59    825122

Pinkie, are you a club secretary by any chance?

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 30/11/2010 13:37:54    825126

Pinkie, I agree absolutely with you that the clubs working together will end the practice of exorbitant amounts of money being paid to managers. As I said previously no club is forced to do this. They do it willingly.
I also agree with you that the strength of a club comes from within. Volunteerism is vital to the survival of any club. No clb would survive without it. I by the way have not forgotten that concept. I have coached underage football teams for twenty six years and have never claimed a pennies expenses. Nor will I ever claim a penny.
You are not comparing like with like when you compare volunteerism within a club and club managment. Your assertion that every club has someone capable of running a team is incorrect. I have seen far too many players both young and experienced, physically ruined by managers who did not know what they were doing. They ran these players in to the ground. They had no appreciation of physical development or strength and conditioning. They had no awareness that different players, especially young players have different physical requirements. Underage players who were in the throes of growth spurts is one particular case in point. They were usually well meaning people who ended up doing a huge amount of harm. You also ignore the fact that managers need to be changed. Players will not listen to the same voice forever. Management is about a lot more than getting a lad to take a team for the year
I take it that as a senior club official you were involved in either the selection or the ratification of the selection of your clubs manager for the year. Considering he was in your estimation unsatisfactory you might assess why he was so and employ the lessons you learn when next you select your manager. Remember a well meaning man who does not have an awareness of the requirements of good management will end up costing your club a lot more in physios fees than a good manager from outside.
The answer very often lies within a club and that is as it should be. But it does not always come from within.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 30/11/2010 15:40:42    825257

Apologies the last post was addressed to perfect10.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 30/11/2010 16:32:47    825316

Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 1013

823429 These days you get nothing for nothing. Looking misty eyed in to the past will do no good. People can be cheapskates all they like. The simple fact is that these days time is precious. Any manager worth his salt will put a lot of time and effort in to a job. They have to, of necessity put more time in to the job than is required of players to play the game. Since most managers are married men with families that is time way from their families. Clubs should not expect to get that time for nothing. Eighty euro a night is reasonable. Any more and the club should say no.

________________________________

Sp what you are saying is that money makes up for time away from families? That sums up where many people priorities lie these days. Ive made this point before, there is only one way to change that. If you cant commit you shouldnt, if you can you should be able to do so without the necessity of money.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 30/11/2010 17:05:32    825350

Well said Derry_Ledd.

How can money make up for being away from families and children? If a manager uses the excuse of spending time away from family as a reason for getting paid then they are lying. Claiming money for managing a group of people who play for nothing is an insult to the players.

890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 30/11/2010 17:55:39    825392

Are you claiming Greengrass that every manager who is going around training a club is better equipped and knows more about how to physically train a team? I cant say I agree - many of them are not one bit more qualified to train a club nor know any more about physical demands on players than you or I could know after a coaching course.
I do commend you on your training of underage teams but dont agree with you on the rest! But that is why we have discussion boards like this one!
Also I am not saying that the coaches are wrong - if clubs are stupid enough to pay these managers (some of whom I am sure are currently unemployed) then more the fools they. My opinion is that it is wrong for clubs to employ them in the first place.
Perfect10 I am not a club secretary - why were you wondering?

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 30/11/2010 19:47:56    825477

I'm not saying that at all Pinkie. What I am saying is that there are a lot of well meaning people out there who are doing a lot of harm. Coach education is vital. It is very important that clubs appoint good quality coaches at all levels. Clubs must demand that their underage coaches have the requisite qualifications. No club should employ outside coaches to coach their underage teams. They must ensure that their underage coaches have a level one qualification
I agree that some coaches doing the rounds are no more qualified than you or I. Clubs must demand the highest of standards and employ only properly qualified and experienced managers if they are employing outside managers. Anything else is a terrible waste of money. Good debate Pinkie. We'll agree to disagree.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 30/11/2010 20:10:10    825501

Derry_ledd I never said money made up for time away from family. You are the one who asserted I said that . Your interpretation of what I said is inaccurate. It is not my fault that you and the Wexford lad who has a telephone number for a username have a problem interpreting basic english. I raised a number of other issues as well. Perhaps you might deal with those without the superficial sanctimony and the moralising on commitment.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6194 - 30/11/2010 20:27:07    825519

E100 per session and E100 per match last year. We won nothing.

Dr.Shephard (Leitrim) - Posts: 2187 - 30/11/2010 20:34:41    825523

Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 1018

825519 Derry_ledd I never said money made up for time away from family. You are the one who asserted I said that . Your interpretation of what I said is inaccurate. It is not my fault that you and the Wexford lad who has a telephone number for a username have a problem interpreting basic english. I raised a number of other issues as well. Perhaps you might deal with those without the superficial sanctimony and the moralising on commitment.

___

Greengrass, by ,aking that point you asserted that, what other reason would you have made that point for. It is an argument often put forward and to me it is total BS.

Often theses managers are county players with little or no managing experience going into manage Junior and Intermediate teams. I am totally opposed to any sort of pay to players or managers in the GAA. It is not necessary and I think a club should concentrate on developing managers as well as players. Too many cowboys are picking up a nice penny through expenses, tax free. They are not only going against the ethos of the GAA they are frauds in my eyes. In my opinion they should be ashamed of themselves. They are sellouts and I will never change my views on this!

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 30/11/2010 21:07:14    825556