oh great amazing brilliant well said the best ever

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 10/11/2010 19:21:28    813861

hurlinspuds, did I say everyone on the thread supports celtic? Did I say you are all the same? No, I said the guys who have claimed to support celtic for football reasons, regardless of the attached connotations, on this site in the past, are now on here saying the opposite about the poppy. So next time, before you rush to dish out ur condescending advice, actually read the post.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 10/11/2010 19:47:56    813899

Irishmen served in the war too!!........Yeah!.......So what!!

Dont be using stuff like that to hide behind!

The fact is that the poppy commemerates the 'British Army' of the Great War!

This is the same British Army that was terrorising us in our own country at the same time OK!!!

An army is an army is an army is an army is an army of a country no matter what theatre it is serving in, be it Ireland, Flanders or Gallipoli OK!!!!

The fact that Irishmen fought and died in that same army that terrorised our country is neither here nor there!!.......It was the 'British Army' and you cannot 'pick and choose' which parts of the British Army was good and which was bad!
You cannot say that the BA of the Somme were good but the BA of the 'Sackville' were bad, hence I support the BA of the Somme by wearing this poppy but their comrades serving in Dublin on Easter Week I dont support because they were fighting Irishmen!!

Will some of ye on here ever wish up, grow a pair and have some courage of conviction for once in yer lives!

I will not ever wear a symbol in honour of an """ARMY""" that terrorised my people!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 10/11/2010 20:04:01    813907

Re Snuff,
Here Here totally agree with you.

Mulligan Eamonn (None) - Posts: 896 - 10/11/2010 21:14:59    813949

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 883

813766 Forty Five do you have any more details about that poem,the story behind it and the author perhaps?

http://oldpoetry.com/opoem/29052-Harry-Breaker-Morant-Butchered-to-make-a-Dutchman-s-Holiday

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 10/11/2010 21:55:20    813980

Good man snuff. Good to see there is a real Dub underneath all that blueshirt nonsense attacking unions ;-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 11/11/2010 08:41:46    813995

In fairness to Snuffy i don't believe he was attacking unions at all. Just the way some of them are being run at present. I also agree with his last post as i would never wear a poppy to honour an army that terrorised my country !! I would honour the Irishmen who joined that army though in the hope that it would lead to the unification of my country. These people were tricked but joined for the right reasons !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 11/11/2010 09:56:28    814017

'Will some of ye on here ever wish up, grow a pair and have some courage of conviction for once in yer lives! '

I think you use the same line in every post. So by being one of the few Irish people to wear a poppy while most don't is not having courage of conviction? Personally I think courage of conviction is recognising these people instead of this constant pathetic whining about what the big bad old Brits have done to us

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 11/11/2010 11:14:07    814075

as Someone born and brought up in Scotland but now living here, it has surprised me as to how few people wear an easter lily. I even tried to start a thread on it which was banned. I can understand people not wanting to be associated with the northern conflict, but the point I made in my thread was now was the time to start wearing them as the country has moved on from those dark days. I personally have no issues with the poppy but it has now been too politicized and despite my father fighting and taking a bullet in WW2 for British forces and fighting the zionists after the war in Palestine I wouldn't been seen dead in one. It is now being used by the british government to justify their illegal war in Iraq and the strategic war in Afghanistan against their former allies.
Another thing that annoys me is the media coverage given to various ceremony's and monument unveiling to soldiers who fought in foreign wars. We are at peace now so the nation should do more to remember brave men and women in Irish history who fought to give Ireland it's freedom. Dulce et decorumm est . Or something like that.

thistle_harps (UK) - Posts: 879 - 11/11/2010 11:30:42    814087

Stick to the teleprompter Jon

Jimbodub you're perhaps a little disingenuous to Mr Snow and showing your lack of knowledge of the man. Reading a book at present by Robert Fisk called 'The Great War for Civilisation, the Battle for the Middle East'.

In the book Mr Fisk describes how Jon Snow and a few other journalists organised and actively partook in a rescue of some sailors who were marooned in a port during the Iran-Iraq war. They did so at great personal risk to themselves and on a completely humanitarian basis, because they felt it was the right thing to do.

The point being he's not just a man who sits behind a desk all day as you would portray. Given his previous life experiences you would do well to consider Mr Snow's opinion rather than being so dismissive of him.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 11/11/2010 11:38:22    814093

Let's simplify the arguments on the thread for people who have difficulty comprehending each other's views. I personally wouldnt wear a poppy but that is my personal choice.

Perhaps posters who are for and against can add more arguments to either list if they feel I have missed any:

(Note: The arguments for and against are from the perspective of an Irish person)

Arguments for wearing the poppy:

1. It remembers the war dead
2. It remembers those who fought against facism
3. Irishmen fought in the wars it commemorates
4. Poppy collections help financially support families of fallen soldiers

Arguments against wearing the poppy

1. It only remembers the war dead of the British army
2. It has been politicised in the North of Ireland along sectarian lines
3. The British army/government/nation continues to occupy part of Ireland
4. The First World War was arguably simply an imperialist war between rich empires in which ordinary people's lives were considered expendable
5. Other wars which it commemorates are/were also equally unjust i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan, Falklands/Malvinas etc
6. Poppy collections help financially support families of fallen soldiers - why does the British govt not adequately cover this when they sent them to war?
7. The record of the British army in Ireland is far from proud therefore Irish people should not support them for historical reasons
8. There appears to be culture of forcing people to wear a poppy who may have reasons to object - for instance people on tv, professional football players etc.
9. Is it rememberance day or rememberance month?
10. Some Irish men were 'duped' into fighting for the British - the promise of Home Rule etc

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 11/11/2010 12:20:30    814125

goodfella tir.
that was a sound post , and it clearly gives the reasons why people have the right and respect of to wear , and not to wear . well said .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 11/11/2010 12:27:59    814132

thistle_harps in fairness the easter lily has been just as politicised as the poppy by nationalsts/sinn fein which is why many wont wear it. Like the many things - the irish language...etc they have benn hijacked by nationalists to use as a political weapon

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 11/11/2010 13:18:26    814200

Very good post snuf. There were no shortage of British Army volunteers for the Black n Tans; the same ones who fought in the Great War. Irishmen who pull on a uniform for Britain or who did so in the past, given that country's shameful murderous bloody history on this island, are traitors to Ireland AND to EVERY Irish person who died in the cause of emancipation and Irish freedom. There was a great article in yesterday's Irish News by the political commentator Brian Feeney. Brian gave a list of atrocities carried out by the British Army since WWII in Ireland, Palestine, Aden, Malaya, Kenya etc and the whitewash 'Inquiries' that always blamed 'a few bad apples'. Well it wasn't a few, the whole barrel was rotten. The British military still look on Ireland as a colony and it's people as stupid uneducated 'BOG WOGS'. It would be better if Remembrance Sunday and the 2 minute silence were reserved for the people who lie cold in their graves through British colonialism and 'Empire building'.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9825 - 11/11/2010 13:23:42    814205

Thankyou Mes Amis.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/11/2010 14:45:49    814278

I would never wear a poppy and that is my choice.

ta32, your swipes at the west of Ireland are getting tiresome. Don't tar us with the same brush as a wind up merchant from these parts. Sure I could do the same and start taking swipes at Tyrone due a certain wind up merchant from Pomeroy, but can see beyond that.

Wests_Awake (Galway) - Posts: 877 - 11/11/2010 14:57:38    814287

'Irishmen who pull on a uniform for Britain or who did so in the past, given that country's shameful murderous bloody history on this island, are traitors to Ireland AND to EVERY Irish person who died in the cause of emancipation and Irish freedom.'

They're more Irish than you'll ever be, preaching from the comfort of your armchair

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 11/11/2010 15:23:46    814316

wests_awake . galway.
thats is fair , and i apologise if i caused offense , its not the west of my country i am having a go at , its the comments i will attack from some posters , but as u say do not tarnish with the same brush i agree , sorry .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 11/11/2010 15:29:49    814326

Good post Goodfella, but im intrigued as to why the Falklands war is unjust from a British perspective!

To clarify, a fascist dictatorship in Argentina attacked a small and (they thought) defenceless island.
The population of the Falklands consider themselves British and have no interest in joining Argentina, historically there has never been any link between the Falklands and Argentina.
So of all the wars the Brits have embroiled themselves in, this one is surely one of the more just!

Likewise - what about the Boer war? The British army waged full scale war on a polulation of civilian farmers, invented the concentration camp and starved 20,000 women and children to death. One of the most shameful episodes in the modern era.

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 11/11/2010 15:31:20    814328

ulsterman.
another excellent post as to reasons why we should or anyone for that matter should be forced to wear a poppy , i am not bitter to tell people not to wear it that is their right , but my right is to remember the irish who died and died for our freedom , thats why my allegience deep down inside of me wears my lily every year and the morale of the story ulsterman as you well know , never forget which side your bread is buttered on . mines is on the 32 and the people who gave their lives for it .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 11/11/2010 15:40:03    814334