patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 10362

personally I would starve first, as obviously would my extended family over the years.

1. You have no idea whether you would rather starve or not - you have never been placed in the situation. And what if you had young children? Would you be prepared to watch them starve as well? So less of the bull and stop insulting people who were driven down a pretty desperate path by poverty the likes of which we can never hope to comprehend no matter how many recessions we see.

2. Theres nothing obvious about the fact that your extended family didnt join, each person who joined had their own story and most of them were pretty tragic. The fact that your family were lucky enough to avoid something so grim is not for crowing about trying to be the big man on a message board.

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 17/11/2010 10:49:03    818166

Horse, not all those who fought in the German army in WWII were Nazis. There was conscription you know. There was also conscription in Britain in WWI and a lot of the people from this country who went did so for economic reasons or because they were fooled into going by politcal groups, namely the Unionist Party and the Irish Parliamentary Party.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 17/11/2010 11:12:50    818184

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2702

818184 Horse, not all those who fought in the German army in WWII were Nazis. There was conscription you know. There was also conscription in Britain in WWI and a lot of the people from this country who went did so for economic reasons or because they were fooled into going by politcal groups, namely the Unionist Party and the Irish Parliamentary Party.

i dont dispute that there was conscription, plus no doubt a lot of coercion in Nazi Germany.
Doesnt alter the fact that Hitler was democratically elected with over 30% of the vote. Ok - he instated himself as a dictator as soon as he got a chance but...
Also doesnt alter the fact that there were thousands upon thousands of Germans who were very happy to impose his will. Even the pope was in some sort of nazi kids organisation. Now dont tell me he joined out of fear of being put in a concentration camp. No. He joined so as to get into a good school. Most of the Germans were either delighted to scapegoat and murder the jews, or else content to take the path of least resistance as they werent impacted.
It was only when Hitlers mad policies resulted in the destruction of Germany that any real efforts to stop him emerged. When he was butchering millions no one gave a stuff.

Horse (Laois) - Posts: 1146 - 17/11/2010 11:39:07    818208

Salvation is at hand.

Forcing people to wear poppies in perfectly acceptable, just as Christians force people to worship at Christmas, and force everyone not to drink on Good Friday and things like that.

I was opposed to such things but Ta32 and Seanie Boy on the "Piggy Bank" thread have convinced me on a "when in Rome" principle.

So those two advocate that poppies should be compulsory, so that settles everything.

If you like Nationalist Socialism that is.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/11/2010 20:06:24    818613

16/11/2010 21:43:49
seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 947

818092
Incase you forgot Patrique Tom Barry did not die in arms fighting for the British.


Doh!!!!

The Poppy is a symbol. The money collected is to care for those injured in the service of their country. It would be a bit silly collecting money to maintain dead people.

thought a bright lad like you would have realised that.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/11/2010 20:08:20    818615

God help us all. But especially help the poor moderator that has to deal with this

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 17/11/2010 20:19:05    818626

patrique.
nobody is forcing anybody or enforcing their traditions of christmass on anyone , but if a small sect of society demands stupid and petty laws as such to enforce the christians who for generations celebrated christmass in their own country , want it stopped to appease them , while i am afraid pat that is more wrong , and you know it , but as always you put up a rational answer as to why we should not celebrate christmass in the way we have always celebrated it .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/11/2010 20:27:17    818631

17/11/2010 20:27:17
ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3069

818631
patrique.
nobody is forcing anybody or enforcing their traditions of christmass on anyone , but if a small sect of society demands stupid and petty laws as such to enforce the christians who for generations celebrated christmass in their own country



And where is this country pray? Christian Land? Where would that be? Portadown and environ perhaps, lots of Christians there. And some people object to them marching IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Usually minorities.

No, these people celebrate Christ Mass in MY country. At MY work we have objected to management calling it Christ Mass as the place is full of non believers and non Christians.

So we now do what the US of A, land of the free, home of the brave, saving us from Islam, do. We call it the "Holiday Season".

It has been like that for about 5 years now. Keep up, unless you live in this place called "Christianland".

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 17/11/2010 20:47:45    818662

patrique.
then that is sad , it is christmass pat , not the holiday season , but you will continue to thrive the ranks of the p.c , forget about america , i have alaways celebrated christmass the way it always been celebrated in a christian country , and i will not lie down to the p.c brigade , what about the people rights who have always known it as a merry christmass , were is there rights , do not make me laugh for gods sake .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/11/2010 21:03:42    818680

Patrique

The Poppy is a symbol. The money collected is to care for those injured in the service of their country. It would be a bit silly collecting money to maintain dead people.

thought a bright lad like you would have realised that.


The Poppy is "sold" to raise money for injured veterans and others who served their country.The wearing of the poppy is done to commemorate those who died while serving.As Tom Barry neither died serving in the British armed forces,or maintained a relationship with them as a veteran then he is excluded on these grounds alone.

Its a noble cause by the way,veterans everywhere should be helped by their fellow countrymen whether you agree with the terms of the service they gave or not.

By all means keep being a ridiculous instigator of the most annoying arguments ever on this forum.You are truly the most infuriating person on here.Your arguments for the most part smack of acquiescence and spinelessness.Your admiration for those who did great harm to this country is contemptible and surpassed only by your disdain for those who fought and died for this country.Is that what Official Republicanism is about these days?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 18/11/2010 08:46:54    818730

I suppose we really ought not be surprised that the same people who attack Irish republicans as being backward and insular are the same people who want to obliterate aspects of our heritage and culture to accomodate people of other cultures, who by the way are seldom the ones calling for the banning of cribs and Christmas! It is usually self appointed deracinated liberals who choose to offended on their behalf.

States is actually a good example as large minorities in cities like New York - Jews for example - have never objected to Christmas because they are confident in their own culture which is also protected. Most muslims in UK - other than the Al Quaeda types who don't want 'multi culturalism' like their liberal allies but the replacement of Christian culture by medieval Islam - have no problem with Christmas. They just get on with their own thing.

And by the way, I don't think any northern nationalists object to Unionist culture - they just don't want it forced upon their communities through marches. Nor have they any desire to force their culture on Unionists.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 18/11/2010 08:52:21    818733

hurlingdub.
well said good post .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 18/11/2010 16:28:07    819012

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2705

818733
I suppose we really ought not be surprised that the same people who attack Irish republicans as being backward and insular are the same people who want to obliterate aspects of our heritage and culture to accomodate people of other cultures, who by the way are seldom the ones calling for the banning of cribs and Christmas!


Should we be surprised that those supporting Irish republicans and Christmas also support waterboarding and murder by the British state as long as they do it on Muslims????

I never met as may people in my life who couldn't read.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 18/11/2010 19:26:40    819145

Patrique
I never met as may people in my life who couldn't read.

Ah come on now,aren't you from Andytown?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 19/11/2010 08:45:55    819255

pat.
you were against modern day irish republicism .ie. the split , now are bitter ye stood idol .
you do not think christmass has its rightful place to be celebrated in a christian the way it always has been , well i am sorry pat . merry christmass to you and a happy new year , i will keep that tradition , no disrespect to yourself . and as for waterboarding , well so be it , we need the americans wether people like it or not its the times we are in , different rules?

as for the poppy i do not care , people can wear it , it is not going to offend me , and that will be one less p.c screaming match .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 19/11/2010 12:15:49    819355

So ta32 you approve of america torturing people yet when britain do it they shame all the devils in hell...ok..now you have just confirmed you are aither a WUM or an idiot. I hope it is the former for your sake

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 19/11/2010 13:25:06    819397

bad.monkey.
allright , i will ask you a simple question , do you believe we AT THIS TIME WE NEED THE FIREPOWER OF THE AMERICAN MILITARY .
stop bringing the irish problem of which you nevercared about anyway into this , this is a very different ballgame we are dealing with .
so it is what in your ipinion , either we do or we do not need them , i am not a wum and i am not a idiot . just a simple question which deserves a simple answer .
as for the poppy saying we are on the subject , its ones personal decision end of well?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 19/11/2010 14:27:02    819442

Ta32 i agree that we need the America army and fully support them. but equally so the british army who also protect irelands interests.

my problem is that you openly support the amercan army and say we need them but yet you abhor and attack the british army in everything they do.

They are involved in the same wars, use the same tactics, in fact basically fight as one army. Can you see how this may come across as hypocritical?

Also re poppy im not sure we have such different view - i wouldnt wear one but dont mind if others do. You seem to be of a similar view from what i can gather.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 19/11/2010 17:27:02    819569

badmonkey.
look i will put to you like this , regardless of what i think of the british military or not , the point i am making is withouth the american military might then europe and other parts of the world would be in trouble big that is , the british armed forces and whatever other armies that commit to stability and protection of western europe would not be able to cope without the help and the might of the americans, the brits are their allies and are invovled in iraq which i disagree , in afganistan they are there for a reason , now the conflict in my country and the conflict of afganistan are two completely different scenarios , they i believe were in ireland to divide and rule and i am against that , but on the other hand these extremists who are hell bent on killing masses , honour killings , sharia law , sucicide bombers etc so on and so forth , have another sinister agenda at hand , and as much as i hate to say this , the americans and her allies are well within their rights to curb , plots like madrid , london, new york etc , and if that means the brits backing up the yanks , and we are safe for example flying then so be it , see monkey i can split the two , because they are very different conflicts with very different rules , in different times that are disturbing to say the least , i come on here and speak , and whatever way i see it i will speak what i see , that surely would not make me a hypocrite.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 19/11/2010 17:55:44    819592

wow ta32 almost an expression of gratitude towards the British army!

Fair enough i can see what you saying. I would support the UK/US in all their conflicts, they are our closet allies and as you say protect Europe through their armed forces - to live under that protection without contributing and then questioning how they provide it seems very rich and slightly cowardly. I dont believe in picking and choosing when you support friends and allies. Their armies are the most restrained and disciplined in the world especially when compared to the forces they are fighting.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 19/11/2010 18:21:07    819608