brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2779

808768
I don't believe my question related to any 'hidden agendas' mes Amis, the question was a generic one relating a host of what I believe to be related topics, if your stuck for a response then don't bother.

I never mentioned "hidden agendas".

The legalisation of cannabis has nothing to do with prostitution or gambling or hard drugs.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 03/11/2010 15:47:45    808800

using heroin once is far more dangerous than taking a few drinks. the lethal dose is tiny compared to alcophol in one go. diamorphine is heriona dn its use in hospital by trained professionals has to be carefully regulated and monitored. the professor was saying alcohol cause more damage to society as a whole but druggies will jump on this to try and make illegal drugs sound safe

speedy12 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 592 - 03/11/2010 15:56:48    808803

Brend, you are straw-manning the hole out of this thread!!!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12332 - 03/11/2010 16:03:00    808805

yew_tree
County: Mayo
Posts: 1754

808150 Alcohol is NOT worse than herion. ive yet to see a person steamed up on guinness think he is superman and jump off a roof.

Are you for serious?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1dfGR9G768

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12332 - 03/11/2010 16:11:50    808815

Breff, I have absolutely no idea what that means but I'll take it in good spirit!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 03/11/2010 16:37:40    808842

By legalising something you make it socially acceptable. Cannabis (as paddy has shown) can have serious long term effects. The only argument these people have is that alcohol is legal and it is also a drug. As if that means something? Alcohol isn't a big enough problem on it's own apparently. Jimbo can go so far as to guarantee us that we will all come together in one big peace loving non-violent society if cannabis is legalised. Laughable stuff.

Would all alcohol products disappear if Cannabis was legalised? Or would people mix both as they do now? The drink culture might eventually move to a drugs culture, replacing one problem for another with no real increase in taxes. Then of course you'd have the greater draw on health services as cancer patients increased. The Gardai wouldn't be able to do roadside breath tests for Cannabis so there would be a huge draw on their services as people would have to be brought in for blood tests. Sure that sounds like the solution to everything, the recession, the drink culture. Genius idea..

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 03/11/2010 17:06:11    808880

me mates da used to come home locked and wreck the house and give them all a few slaps.me other mates da used to come home stoned and send one of them to the chipper before they all sat down to watch a comedy .

finglas full ba (None) - Posts: 636 - 03/11/2010 17:10:24    808889

Powerfully ignorant post there JonSmith but unfortunately I don't have enough time here to elaborate on that......I have to go off and score some gear, ah no I'm busy at the moment but rest assured we'll pick this up tomorrow.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 03/11/2010 17:28:50    808916

paddyogall
County: Mayo
Posts: 3139

808747
Short-term effects of hash



Brought to you by the same scientists who for years were paid to say smoking is harmless.

catch yerself on.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 03/11/2010 17:30:18    808919

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position - from wikipedia


I am interested in the idea of making Dublin like amsterdam and using Irelands fertile lands to create a new cash crop in the form of weed, but lets stay on topic. The evidence from this study shows that alcohol causes more damage to society than lots of other drugs that are illegal. We cannot just ignore this for ever. I honestly don't think banning drink is a good idea either. We should be allowed to keep cannabis because they allow it in Canada and Prague and probably lots of other places I haven't yet been.

In our culture people get hammered on drink as a norm. Why do they need to do this? Is it to escape from their dreary working lives? Is this the only way to find a woman/man?

We need to create a more equal society and give people of all ages access to all forms of recreation that don't involve drugs. If money was no object you would see more people spending their free time doing everything from hiking to paintballing, G.A.A. to swimming, and learning musical instruments to travelling.

We need to update our culture and to do that we must create a better environment for ourselves and our kids to live in. People will get new incentives. instead of working 9-5 in a job you hate so you can kill some brain cells at the weekend, we should be involved in the things we love and helping others enjoy these things,which should be reward enough. Addiction to harmful amounts of drugs would begin to disappear.

Or we could try and legalise the other drugs and money could be made from them, but I believe that would only serve to increase the inequality gap even further, which results in increases in a range of social problems according to a separate but fascinating bit of research by Prof Richard Wilkinson & Kate Pickett(spirit level 2010).

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1558 - 03/11/2010 17:32:41    808922

The drink culture might eventually move to a drugs culture,

It already has...

There is nothing laughable about my comments... there are far bigger players in Europe than ourselves that have put such practices in place.

There is nothing laughable about it. It's good enough for Germany, Holland etc etc... countries fare furhter down the road than Ireland regarding social issues.

Salt and Sugar is far more dangerous than Cannabis by the way... and kills a lot more people in this country than even alcohol. The number one Drug....

My comments come from experience... and those I've experienced in economy's far greater than our own.. who were having this debate decades ago...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 03/11/2010 17:34:09    808925

seanie_boy and others - it seems many of you would like to see drugs legal in ireland to get rid of da scumbags making big money. i dont see it this way. there will always be a way for da lazy scum to make money and take lives.
by the way ive yet to hear of a person being mugged on da street for drink money. drugs totally ruin peoples lives. (yes so does drink but i dont think drink is as bad as drugs).
picture this - a family in a pub eating a meal: dad goes to the bar and orders a drink or 2. family next to them: dad pulls out a needle and shots up........which is worse

also does drink spread aids?

if ye want to live in a drugs paradise - then fine. but it will NEVER happen in ireland. mark my words

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11563 - 03/11/2010 18:22:41    808978

Alcohol has done more damage over the centuries, than all other drugs combined!
Because it is legal,and, socially acceptable,makes it all the more dangerous.
Alcohol is responsible for most road 'accidents',and, the majority of crimes are comitted under the influence of alcohol.
Broken homes and marriages are also high on the list,not to mention the cost of lost work hours.
Alcholism is a severe mental illness, and,the amount of misery it causes is horrendous!
Never underestimate the POWER of the drink.

Bigapple (Kerry) - Posts: 495 - 03/11/2010 18:37:29    808991

yew_tree.
with all respect i think you are blowin this subject out of its context . yes drugs are bad , and very addictive , i personally have never had a problem with drugs , but i have had with alcohol , and i can see the damage it can do , but i believe the misuse of alcohol and its irrisponsible marketing is sending this country and many other into epidemic proportions , and i do believe they are undermining the serioness of it , now by legalising cannabis [ which i have never had ] by the way , but believe it should be legalised for medical and remedial purposes would save the country millions , and drug dealers profits would sharply fall , other issues concerning harder drugs like cocaine and heroine , the policing of this would free their time up at catching hardened criminials , instead of wasting their time in writing reports of a young person in possession and possible fines and court dates etc . it just makes a lot of sense

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 03/11/2010 18:47:05    808999

Jimbo suggesting that legalising Cannabis would be a boost to the economy is completely laughable. The margin for profit on alcohol would be hugely superior to Cannabis given the binge drinking culture in Ireland and the nature of the two products. If you legalise Cannabis the numbers using it instead of alchol would increase dramatically, with a proportionate reduction in the income from alcohol. That loss of income wouldn't be close to being made up for by the amount of tax that would come in from taking the profits from the dealers.
Then you factor in the long term medical costs of dealing with the health implications of long term Cannabis use.
Ireland's Guinness and Boudhran image would be out the window replacing it with a drug culture instead except the profit margin would be a lot less. Explain to me where the profit is going to come from?

The only argument the pro Cannabis people can come up with is to point out that other products are harmful and they are legal. Sure why not add one more to the list so.. Golden reasoning right there.

Htaem I believe one of your first arguments was that it should be legalised because you can get it anyways and hence the system had failed. Or maybe the idiot drug users who are lining the dealers pockets without any regard for the fact that they are funding the scum ruining parts of our country, have failed. Depends which side of the fence you're standing. Look forward to hearing your views on my "ignorance" when you find the time.

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 03/11/2010 18:53:47    809006

yew_tree
County: Mayo
Posts: 1757

808978 seanie_boy and others - it seems many of you would like to see drugs legal in ireland to get rid of da scumbags making big money. i dont see it this way. there will always be a way for da lazy scum to make money and take lives.
by the way ive yet to hear of a person being mugged on da street for drink money. drugs totally ruin peoples lives. (yes so does drink but i dont think drink is as bad as drugs).
picture this - a family in a pub eating a meal: dad goes to the bar and orders a drink or 2. family next to them: dad pulls out a needle and shots up........which is worse

also does drink spread aids?

if ye want to live in a drugs paradise - then fine. but it will NEVER happen in ireland. mark my words

Does Cannabis spread aids?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 03/11/2010 18:53:51    809007

ta32 - we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11563 - 03/11/2010 18:57:10    809012

yew_tree.
fair enough yew tree , but take in what i am saying , i value were you are coming from morally , but the country would be better off if they legalised cannabis .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 03/11/2010 19:07:12    809028

yew_tree
County: Mayo
Posts: 1757

808978
seanie_boy and others - it seems many of you would like to see drugs legal in ireland to get rid of da scumbags making big money. i dont see it this way. there will always be a way for da lazy scum to make money and take lives.
by the way ive yet to hear of a person being mugged on da street for drink money. drugs totally ruin peoples lives. (yes so does drink but i dont think drink is as bad as drugs).
picture this - a family in a pub eating a meal: dad goes to the bar and orders a drink or 2. family next to them: dad pulls out a needle and shots up........which is worse

also does drink spread aids?

if ye want to live in a drugs paradise - then fine. but it will NEVER happen in ireland. mark my words

Thats not what I said Yew Tree,I suggested that the effects of alcohol abuse were every bit as destructive as hard drug abuse and less destructive, from what I've seen in my life, than the abuse of Marijuana,a drug I believe can also be abused.I did say there is nothing to be gained from being constantly stoned.
I also think you will find that drink does spread Aids,albeit in a different way,along with Pubic Lice,Genital Warts,Syphilis,Gonorrhea,Genital Herpes etc.Essentially its the behaviour induced that causes the problem.
It's also very clear that people in the "horrors of drink" are more than capable of committing crime in order to get their fix.
You are horrified that somebody would inject themselves to get a fix,so it would seem that its the method of delivery that displeases you most.In that case is it ok if they were smoking it? Or what about if they were to drink 9 or 10 pints of fluid to get the fix?
I did refer to the medicinal use of marijuana and I have no problem with that.In my opinion its no different than taking high doses of Valium or other tranquilizers or being administered morphine or such drugs.I'm not completely sure but I've heard it said by Melissa Etheridge that she used it medicinally when being treated for cancer and there was no "high" from it in this way,maybe its got to do with the level of the dose?
As for a drugs paradise? No Yew Tree its not something I wish for as I believe it would be an exercise in futility.A drugs free paradise is somehow much more attractive.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 03/11/2010 19:40:34    809065

The Master,

Not advocating drug or drink driving at all. Have been told by a drugs counsellor that in America drink and drug driving are about 50/50 as regards accidents !!

Ta32, The Garda can test for drug driving now. Any sample of blood or urine can be tested for either drugs or alcohol and both carry the same penalty !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 03/11/2010 19:47:27    809072