Not very refreshing to see the national opinion similar to the opinion about hurling in my own county. I like the fact these lads don the national colours and they deserve respect for it. Nobody seems to see Pat Horgan as top quality by the way? The Scottish Shinty game is very much regional, a bit like hurling maybe. The ideal for me would be the rebirth of the interpro series as a highly attended spectacle in both codes.

What01 (Westmeath) - Posts: 67 - 29/10/2010 12:55:26    805659

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2566

805491
hill16noiman - Have you never heard of Shane Dooley?

yes of course but he would not be regarded as the best player in his position in the country which technicaly is what an irish hurling team should represent dont you think.its simple if none of the best players in ireland apart from the 4 ye keep mentioning want to even play this game why shud it get centre stage and how many people would attend it if it was on its own? that surely would solve your theory

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/10/2010 14:13:13    805730

Dooley did get a nomination in fairness! But as someone else said the reason it is not the best possible team of hurlers is that they would be too good for the Scottish lads. My point was that even if it is mostly players from Div II or Christy Ring that I would still prefer watching it to watching the compromise rules and objectively it would be better entertainment imo but that's just my bias.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 29/10/2010 14:25:49    805747

I agree hurlingdub. If it was the all stars, the scots would in all likelihood be hammered. And don't the christy ring / rackard lads deserve teh recognition for the contribution they give to the game. fair play to them.

What10- the interpro series was great but not sure thereare enough employers for this anymore......

Puddersthecat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1692 - 29/10/2010 15:05:06    805785

yes i agree they do deserve the recognition and they are getting it as a curtain raiser surely from what you both just said agrees with me tho that if ireland arent allowed feild a full strength side then why should this take centre stage and how many people wud attend it ?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/10/2010 18:59:38    806010

Today's Shinty is 100 miles better than the Compromise Rules that was on last weekend. Much better. I'll sit through all of this, but I'm only giving the Compromise Rules match 15 mins and if its the same as last week Im not bothered watching. This Shinty is very good, good standard, good hits, good attitude, good game.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2573 - 30/10/2010 17:13:56    806325

Good day, gentlemen. Cracking website; one we Scots look on with envy. It's gratifying to see so many positive comments about the Hurling-Shinty international. Correct, about the regional nature of Camanachd / Shinty, a bit like Hurling, in that respect. It was played, country wide, up to a century ago but Highlanders, unsurprisingly, are really the only ones to keep it going. Small numbers but played to a high standard and increasing in popularity,across the whole of Scotland, in spite of the prejudices of the football obsessed Glasgow "brit" media.
A "Home International", Celtic Cup is not that daft a concept. A bit of history, if I may, to put things in perspective. Firstly, the sasunnachs don't count ( genetically Celts, believe it or not ). The Welsh? They played a sport, up until the 1930's called Bandy. The camans were identical to Shinty sticks and from the few accounts I've read, was a very similar game. Rugby and unemployment killed it off, but it gets revived now and again, for their Eistedfod ( our Fleadh ). It wouldn't be difficult to revive, the way things are politically, in Wales.
What we call Shinty was played across the whole of the North of Ireland, from Galway to Dublin and up, before the foundation of the GAA; it was called "Commons". Leinster Hurling took precedence, to become the national game.
We share more then divides us. These games give our sportsmen the chance to play on the international stage. What that gives us, collectively and individually is incalculable. Alba agus Eireann gu brath!

camanachd (UK) - Posts: 2 - 31/10/2010 16:44:29    806672

Thoroughly enjoyed the hurling/shinty hybrid.
Now THATS a game worth playing.

Coylers Elbow (Meath) - Posts: 1075 - 31/10/2010 17:36:23    806699

Failte Camanchd! Interesting post. There is a drawing of a hurling match in Crumlin (Dublin) in 1700s and the sticks look like the shinty sticks. I knew that the game in Antrim was closer to shinty even up into the 20th century but hadn't been aware that it was wider spread.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 01/11/2010 09:20:52    806943

"The history of hurling

Hurling in some form has been known in Ireland for as far back as records go. Earliest references are in old Irish manuscripts that are mostly unknown to the public, but after about 1600 records are often in English. It would appear that there were two traditions of hurling in Ireland. One of these survives to the present day in Scotland under the name camánacht or shinty. It was played in the northern part of the country, especially in Counties Antrim, Down, Derry and Donegal. In a ruined fifteenth-century church at Cloncha in Inishowen there is a grave-slab with a representation of a camán and a ball. The camán is almost identical with the present day Scottish shinty stick.

Camánacht was played using a camán with a fairly narrow boss and a straight end. The ball used was made of wood and this fact, along with the narrow stick, meant it was played on the ground. It was a winter game often associated with Christmas and the New Year. In southern counties after 1600 several changes came in gradually. The boss of the camán became wider over the years and a softer leather-covered ball was used. The game came to be played mostly in the summer, and at some stage handling of the ball was allowed. It is of interest that rules of hurling covering the game as played in Trinity College Dublin in 1870 restricted the width of the boss to two inches but allowed catching the ball in the hand.

When the GAA was founded in 1884 rules were introduced on an all-Ireland basis, and were based mainly on the Southern summer game, since it was much more widespread than the older camánacht version in which Ireland had survived only in the Glens of Antrim and in the Ards Peninsula in Co Down. It should be noted that the early camáns were relatively narrow-bladed; the broad blade as we know it only became popular in the 1920s and the 1930s.

In southern counties hurling enjoyed patronage from the Anglo-Irish gentry. Rival landlords would arrange matches between teams from their estates, and bets were often placed on the result. This patronage gradually ceased after the Act of Union in 1800 but hurling matches still took place between neighbouring parishes. Until the 1950s and 1960s most parishes relied on the goodwill of a farmer to allow matches to take place on a reasonably flat field. Official grounds under GAA control were few and far between, and some counties had only one or two. However in the 30 years following the Second World War most clubs acquired their own grounds complete with changing rooms as the GAA went from strength to strength."

They still play bandy in Scandanavian countries, but it's on ice, saw it on Eurosport a few years back.

ps - hurling does have an international dimension, it's called ice-hockey. Why more has never been done to promote hurling through it as the 'original' game beats me...

Benandonner (Antrim) - Posts: 459 - 01/11/2010 10:13:32    806966

went to croker on saturday, the shinty / hurling was great entertainment. The 2 teams are actually playing different games but it works somehow and works far better than the football. Pity only a few thousand were there for it. The Scots appeared very skillful passing the ball on the ground. Our goalkeeper (Kildare?) was man of the match, he let in one softish one but saved about four.

jos33 (Dublin) - Posts: 243 - 01/11/2010 10:51:14    806978

Latha math dhuit, hurlingdub. I played Shinty for 28 years, at all levels and was lucky enough to play Hurling Shinty, a few times, mainly in the North, Carndonagh, InnisEoighan and Antrim but also against Dicksboro, Kilkenny and nearer to you, against Na Fianna, in the capital ( a good few years ago! ). It was very much in its infancy, players of the respective codes weren't really sure what to make of it. There's a different attitude now and I think the momentum should be maintained. I think we ( at least Shinty players ) have tended to look up our own" toll chac" for too long; the older generation are still more sceptical. They harp on about not adulterating the ancient and noble game. What they don't tell us is that before the Camanachd Association was formed, there were a dozen different ways of playing "Shinty" and about half a dozen names for it, depending on your dialect of Gaelic. Some styles saw the (wooden) ball carried and kicked! Where have you seen that before! Open the series up. Have a Celtic Champions league. get a delegation from the GAA and the CA to approach the Welsh. Revive Bando ( got the name wrong, in the first post ). The Scandinavians play a game called Bandy, on ice ( curious history; they reckon the Vikings took it back from the Celts in Wales) Why not get them to adapt, to play on grass? A North European league? One question, before I go. I'm genuinely interested to know, from seeing previous posts, why does Ireland not not field its strongest team against Scotland? Do the Irish lads not take it too seriously? I feel that having the strongest Irish team on the field, could only raise the standard. all round. Mar sin leat

camanachd (UK) - Posts: 2 - 01/11/2010 11:10:50    806988

camanchd,

welcome to Hoganstand. Very interesting post.

Allegedly, and I say that because I read it in one of Ireland's national papers and don't know if it is true, they limit the number of players from the top hurling counties to make the game more competitive. If you look at the records, when the international series started, Ireland won a good few in a row and so the decision was taken to try and promote the game by making it more competitive. A most enjoyable match and a well deserved victory for Alba.

Puddersthecat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1692 - 01/11/2010 13:49:03    807112

camanachd - I met some of the scottish shinty team on the day of the match and got talking to them about the sport..They are very passionate about the sport and had lots of time to talk to my 12 year old son about the sport as he was very interested and seemd like a great bunch of lads. I was at the game and really enjoyed it and was a great spectacle to watch. Much prefrred this to the football.

is it true that that the sticks have different angles like a golf club depending on the position that you play ?

MK15 (Dublin) - Posts: 31 - 01/11/2010 21:01:09    807567

Found this on the BBC previewing the 2009 game. link
I really hope this game gets the promotion it deserves after the great spectacle on Saturday.

Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1383 - 01/11/2010 21:57:28    807638

Should this not be in the non Gaa forum?

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 02/11/2010 11:28:47    807732

So hurling isn't part of the GAA anymore Floops? That's news to me.

Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1383 - 02/11/2010 13:07:48    807834

Was quite impressed with what I saw of it. Much better than its Aussie companion.

If Ireland needs to keep its squad short of full strength in order that the game be competitive, so be it. Players with sublimely skillful touches (like Canning and Shefflin) would probably really excel at this game. It would be great to see them play it, but not at the expense of a decently competitive game, like we had on Saturday night. The length of the shinty stick seems to cause some problems too. Irish guys were getting clattered, even when pulling on 50/50 balls. It may be worth considering whether changes can be made (without ruining the game) to avoid potentially serious injuries.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 02/11/2010 13:58:48    807879

Thought Pat Horgan's free off the ground was sublime. Two points for it as well, so a great skill like that is rewarded. Going to make a point of checking out Shinty next time I'm over in Scotland.

What01 (Westmeath) - Posts: 67 - 03/11/2010 12:08:20    808592

Ratoath Royal
County: Meath
Posts: 295

So hurling isn't part of the GAA anymore Floops? That's news to me.

eh, yeah last time I checked it was. But the subject of this thread isn't hurling.... In truth I was just aping the idiots on the International rules thread who kept saying the same thing. But knowbody had said it on this thread so I thought I'd even things out. I've nothing against this game, just think it's a little silly.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 03/11/2010 15:31:36    808779