patrique.
i do not know how many times i have explain . god give me strength . yes they are up in stormount and there is peace i accept and glad there is peace .
but it is the way , they climbed there way there off the backs of some brave people who gave their all andnow have been forgotten . thats my argument . simple really , it went against everthing they believed in . ourselfs alone is a fitting name allright . and any nationalist that is annoyed patrique is genuinely annoyed about the way certain matters were handled . thats my point . peace will continue hopefully but it came at a severe price , and a underhanded one at that .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 01/11/2010 14:37:08    807152

patrique.
i do not know how many times i have explain . god give me strength . yes they are up in stormount and there is peace i accept and glad there is peace .
but it is the way , they climbed there way there off the backs of some brave people who gave their all andnow have been forgotten . thats my argument . simple really , it went against everthing they believed in . ourselfs alone is a fitting name allright . and any nationalist that is annoyed patrique is genuinely annoyed about the way certain matters were handled . thats my point . peace will continue hopefully but it came at a severe price , and a underhanded one at that .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 01/11/2010 14:37:23    807157

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2781

807152
patrique.
i do not know how many times i have explain . god give me strength . yes they are up in stormount and there is peace i accept and glad there is peace .
but it is the way , they climbed there way there off the backs of some brave people who gave their all andnow have been forgotten .


Ta32, they climbed there by way of a meticulous plan, which involved soldiers but mostly politicians. The current posing is all part of the plan.

The message is aimed at hard line Unionists. Namely that despite poc fada competitions at Stormont and people speaking Irish at Stormont, the world has not ended, so what was all the fuss about?

Once hard line unionists become conditioned to Sein Fein running the show, well you would like to think that hard line nationalists would follow suit.

As for "the brave men being forgotten" it was always unlikely that some uneducated soldier would be Minister of education.

Or perhaps you just saw the ideal of a united Ireland without any thought as to how it would operate? I can assure you that those brave men did not sacrifice all to be ruled by Fianna Fail in a corrupt Ireland. No, the leadership of Sinn Fein are trying to prevent such an outcome to 30 years of struggle.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 01/11/2010 15:09:43    807189

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1713

806835 Keyboard warrior - A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.

Your self-awareness is commendable PP :)

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12370 - 01/11/2010 15:20:56    807204

Breffni I'd prefer if you didn't get involved in the banter after the mental breakdown you suffered last Friday, we don't want a relapse. Never seen someone beg like that, I felt so much pity for you

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 01/11/2010 15:36:22    807220

Touche PP!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12370 - 01/11/2010 16:11:19    807247

01/11/2010 15:36:22
PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1714

807220
Breffni I'd prefer if you didn't get involved in the banter after the mental breakdown you suffered last Friday, we don't want a relapse. Never seen someone beg like that, I felt so much pity for you




I have seen similar signs in other posters on the "Nani" thread.


Oops, sorry, that's Breffni as well.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 01/11/2010 16:22:03    807260

ta32 i've read with interest your posts on the page. A number of points I would raise about what you have been saying:

You have expressed grave concerns about whether the Sinn Fein leadership betrayed volunteers in order to 'remove' them from the scene. I agree with derryman to some extent in that there is no formal proof of this but rather it is still a conspiracy theory so to speak. I'm not saying you aren't correct but at present we have no proof and I suspect given the dirty nature of the intelligence war that occurred in this country we may never know.

Secondly I asked you previously had you voted for the GFA. You said you did but now regretted it. The difficulty I have with people who voice their concerns with the current political direction is that they knew this was going to happen. They knew Sinn Fein would be playing an active role in Stormont, they knew the PSNI would have to be endorsed by Sinn Fein etc. This was all spelt out clearly in black and white in the GFA. The problem therefore in my eyes is two-fold. Firstly the Sinn Fein leadership do not always communicate well with their core voters and secondly many people voted for the GFA agreement but did not take the time to read up or realise what they were actually voting for. I suspect you may be one of these people ta32. I apologise if that sounds condescending towards you ta32 however that is not my intention.

Thirdly most dissidents can offer no alternative to the current political strategy being followed by Sinn Fein, why is this? In essence there does not appear to be an alternative. Therefore instead of dividing Nationalism further, disaffected republican minded people such as yourself should make their voices heard within Sinn Fein. If enough disaffected members for instance attended an Ard Fheis then the current leadership could in theory be voted out of their positions. Essentially what i'm saying is that its easy to gripe on the margins but its not easy to offer an alternative.

Finally a pendantic point, you refer to Sinn Fein as 'ourselves alone'. This is a common mis-translation I believe, maybe some of the Gaelic scholars on ths site can confirm but it should actually translate as 'we ourselves'.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 01/11/2010 16:44:03    807280

I was lucky enough not to live through the worst of the troubles of the past and I will not for a second try to question anyones versions or knowledge of this.

What I do know for certain however is that the current situation in Stormont IS the way forward. There are no viable alternatives and as for the disidents I think they are seriously lacking in intelligence if they think they are going to achieve anything other than bring Ireland backwards.

What concerns me about your posts Ta32 (bearing in mind that you do support peace) is that many who feel the same as you will use this as a reason to halt progress, which is not doing the memory of anyone any justice. We are where we are now and personal grievance need to be put aside. If we go backwards we are eventually going to end up right where we are now again. Put the the personal grievances in the past and look at the bigger picture of where we as a community are now (not who is heading it up) and even more importantly where we can be in the future.

This is how I feel about the situation.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 01/11/2010 17:26:41    807343

'I was lucky enough not to live through the worst of the troubles of the past and I will not for a second try to question anyones versions or knowledge of this.'

Well then you can't have an opinion on this matter because not only did you have to be alive for all of it but you have to have lived in Belfast and at some point kept seven British Army regiments out of your community armed with nothing more than a tin opener and a water pistol. At least that what's Ulsterman would have you believe and we daren't question him

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 01/11/2010 17:43:34    807368

goodfella tir /patrique/derry ledd .
i knew what i was voting for when i voted for the g.f.a , things are not really phasing out the way they should have been in to relation of the agreement , i also want to conclude that i do want the peace to continue , but because i see things differently and think that many activitys and way things have been conducted in relation to sinn fein are wrong and certain things should not have happened , that does not make me a dissident , i have genuine feelings of concern of what went on within the leadership , a party of i voted for since of voting age , that would entitle me to a voice , and i know that now there is no alternative to this only uniting nationalists , and bringing unionists on board , i see that , and by god the want the peace to stay , but sinn fein are no longer the party they proclaim to be , thank you patrique and goodfella , you explain well and debate , and i am taking on board what you both say , regardless what you think , i would love to be proven wrong , i really would , thats my lot on this matter .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 01/11/2010 19:09:08    807459

derry_LEDD.
you also , i will take your comments on board as everyones .thank you .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 01/11/2010 19:11:05    807463

It is becoming clear that the past 40 years were not all they seem. There were no good guys and bad guys, no black and white but a hell of a lot of smoke and mirrors. What is actually required is some sort of Truth Commission but the biggest obstacle to that would be Britain whose military, intelligence agencies and spooks probably have the most to hide. Undoubtedly they were controlling many paramilitaries from both sides and many people were killed with the full complicit knowledge of the British state. That is the biggest crime of all. Indeed not is all that is seems..........isn't that right Pomeroy?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 02/11/2010 17:17:33    808100

I'd love to answer you Ulsterman but I didn't live through all the troubles and didn't protect my community single handedly from the British Army like yourself so can't have an opinion :(

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 02/11/2010 17:25:27    808111

Oh don't be so coy & shy Pomeroy I think you know far more than you are admitting to.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 02/11/2010 17:31:00    808116

Lads maybe this one is never going to be settled?I hope we can all see better days ahead.A country united and a past we never have to experience again.We all deserve better lads.We deserve to see this country united and free.I don't mean that in the sense that we are in some sort of horrible state of slavery in the north when we are clearly not anymore,those days are long gone and the recent conflict had more to do with civil rights and issues such as sovereignty.Crucial and important issues and I hope we can all one day be happy that Ireland has proudly taken her place among the nations of the world.An Ireland unfettered by her past or present.An Ireland freely making her way in the world with a citizenry that is proud and ambitious.God bless you all lads,God bless Ireland.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 02/11/2010 17:45:43    808147

You got me, unbelievable detective work. I was in the British Army for 40 years and now spend my retirement days going around internet forums defending our good name. I actually remember you Ulsterman from the mean streets of Belfast, the toughest opponent we ever faced. Respect

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 02/11/2010 17:49:43    808154

Who said you were in the British ARMY?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 02/11/2010 17:56:00    808170

Fair enough ta32, likewise i've taken on board your sentiments. Only time will tell who is right or wrong.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 02/11/2010 18:45:11    808236

02/11/2010 17:17:33
Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 2759

808100
It is becoming clear that the past 40 years were not all they seem. There were no good guys and bad guys, no black and white but a hell of a lot of smoke and mirrors. What is actually required is some sort of Truth Commission but the biggest obstacle to that would be Britain whose military, intelligence agencies and spooks probably have the most to hide. Undoubtedly they were controlling many paramilitaries from both sides and many people were killed with the full complicit knowledge of the British state. That is the biggest crime of all. Indeed not is all that is seems..........isn't that right





Spot on.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 02/11/2010 20:18:44    808339