For a start Pomeroy this is big boys talk, you have no idea what you are talking about here as usual. Go away and read a bit about that period and stop getting your info and opinions from the revisionist Southern media and the West Brit Unionists on HS. You have a cheek, from a position of comfort in 2010, to lecture and condemn people who lived in an era when you weren't even born. Many many good people got drawn into situations and incidents because of their daily living conditions and were reacting to what was going on around them and YES I include many Loyalists too. The conflict took on a life of it's own and events beget events as things went out of control, as David Irvine himself said on Voices Beyond the Grave. The Dark got involved because the B Specials, RUC and Loyalists were attacking the Lower Falls on a daily basis while Irvine got involved because of Bloody Friday. It was a time of madness when reality, common sense and perspective went out the window completely. People were reacting emotionally and in many cases irrationally to what was happening and no one, especially a wet behind the ears 20 odd year old student, has the right to lecture and patronise Brendan Hughes or even David Irvine.
That period was an ugly,unforgiving, scary time and in hindsight much of what went on shouldn't have but as Irvine again said reality and rationale didn't exist then. Brendan Hughes was NOT anti peace or anti Peace Process. He was angry that the organisation he joined was sending young people out on operations AND in some cases setting them up WHILE Adams and the Republican leadership were in talks about winding down the conflict. They were deceived, lied to, manipulated and betrayed said Brendan and he was right. Most of East Tyrone and genuine volunteers in Derry and Belfast were being duped, grassed on and set up to protect senior MI5 and Special Branch agents in the IRA/Sinn Fein command structure who are probably still there to this day. Many IRA volunteers in Tyrone were killed to take out the major opposition to the combined Sinn Fein/British government strategy. The Dark uncovered all of this and got out because he knew what was going on AND before he was killed by the same sinister forces. From 1975 onwards most Republicans who went to jail did so for no reason because the Peace Process started in the Cages of Long Kesh and the details of anyone who joined the Provos from then on were immediately given to the British by their agents in the senior Republican command. A lot of people were killed to protect others and if anyone should be telling the truth it is Britain which was manipulating much of the events. It was all smoke and mirrors and the graveyards are testiment to that.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 31/10/2010 17:13:45    806688

derryman.
how long did it take you to compile of all of that spin , or was that part of the spin that was drafted in your brain , by the gospel according to martin . you are really making my blood boil now , coming across as a poster who seems level headed and educated , still believe there were no conspiracy or treachury at a high level , and by the way i am not the one doing damage to the memory or sacrifice of brave volunteers , that damage was done in a hotel rooom in donegal over 23 years ago [ when you are referring to loughall ] they were ordered out against the wishes of the military men on the council , but it was no longer under control of the army itself , it was politicians who had their grip , maybe before spouting about east tyrone or their losses you should reasearch further on the matter .

or what maybe the truth hurts derryman .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 17:38:05    806700

ulsterman.
that was a excellent post , can you not see were i am coming from here , i honestly believe to the bottom of my heart that they were genuine people made expendable , to thrust the ambitions of the current leadership .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 17:41:36    806704

Big boys talk? All I see is a bunch of people pontificating, people who are more than happy to be keyboard warriors but in reality do absolutely nothing. So spout away Ulsterman, I'm sure you think it's mighty impressive and people are in awe of you that you can talk the talk but cowardice means that's as far as you'll take it

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 31/10/2010 17:48:35    806708

There was an intelligence war in Ireland in which the British paid, threatened and coerced people into becoming their agents. They deployed electronic listening/surveillance equipment in a bid to counter the IRA. These tactics failed to stop the Baltic Exchange, Canary Wharf, Manchester and Downing St. bombings, so to claim the IRA were completely manipulated by MI5/6 does not stand up in a rational study of events. The IRA were also very apt at gathering their own intelligence as the bugging of the British Army HQ in Lisburn and Castlereagh break in proves.

The Tory declaration in the early 90's that Britain had no selfish or strategic interests in Ireland was tantamount to a declaration of intent to withdraw - what exactly is the point in fighting a war which has already been won?

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 31/10/2010 17:49:52    806709

pomeroyplunkett.
i do not honestly believe ulsterman would want anybody to be in awe of him , but i do respect him as a poster and a fellow nationalist who actually cares about sensitive issues , i am sure you can understand in the times when emotions were running high , that would leave a politicail scar on anyone , i respect everyones views on here , even if i do not agree with , you should do the same , and beware sometimes certain discussions are very sensitive to people at heart . who mean the best with their intentions .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 18:15:56    806732

artisan.
those operations that you mentioned that were succesful . why do you think that was ?
because armagh did not trust belfast ? operations in england were nearly always thought out and carried out by south armagh .
basically they worked on there own , and alot of the time were succesful , which proves what i am saying all along . but they eventually they were the only command that was not infiltrated ... leaving all up to them , which as time gone by they lost heart at what was happening all over the province . another part of the end game .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 18:22:48    806737

PP

Like the conflict you know nothing about me, my past or what I did or didn't do. However we DO know that you are the original Armchair General because you seem to know everything about an era when you weren't even on this earth. In fact your ignorance on these matters only show your immaturity and complete lack of knowledge about the past 40 years. You may sit in your tutorials at Queens and think you know it all but you are a political pygmy and an amateur when it comes to the conflict, I do know that much. You didn't live it and are still only a boy so I can maybe understand your naivety. One day you will grow up and learn about life and the island you live on.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 31/10/2010 18:31:14    806748

Just you keep spouting away from the comfort of your armchair, it's mighty impressive :)

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 31/10/2010 18:54:29    806769

Ta32
I cannot say there were no Informers within the IRA or Sinnfein. I think we all can take it as a given there were lots of them. What I do not accept is this totally unproven allegation that Martin Maguiness and Gerry Adams sold out the IRA. There is no evidence, there is hearsay and Innuendo and that is as far as the evidence to support these allegations go. As far as myself is concerned Yes I would like to think that I can be level headed. (however that is not always so as those who know me will attest) As far as being educated I am not and have never claimed to be. But I will reserve the right to form my own opinions in matters that I have followed through my own lifetime. When and more to the point IF I see Evidence to support what you say then I will rethink my position. However to date no evidence has been offered and certainly not on these threads and this is my final word on this ever so sad matter.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 31/10/2010 19:10:43    806790

PP

My armchair has more experience and knowledge of the conflict than you.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 31/10/2010 19:23:38    806796

derryman.
i do agree with you on one thing , it was a very sad state of affairs , you are entitled to your ipinion i respect that .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 19:51:24    806830

Keyboard warrior - A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 31/10/2010 19:52:50    806835

31/10/2010 19:52:50
PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1708

806835 Keyboard warrior - A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.
______________

Highly impressive, have you thought about basing your thesis on it ?

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 31/10/2010 20:17:18    806857

pomeroyplunkett.
a person who expressed anger through his convictions always ended up wrong and blurred by the real goings on .
a person who was compassionate and emotional and held convictions in what he believed in kept them close to his heart , or wore it on his /her sleeve , usually ends up in the right side of town , for all the right and noble reasons . brendan hughes was one of them men .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 20:18:35    806859

there also is a great sadness that there is a division and a hurtful split within republicanism , but this was always the case down through history and generations .
the current sinn fein leadership should have known better , that by there actions they have left a legacy of secret talks , disowning there own people , and now are on the payroll and pernmanent payroll of the riches and the capatalists parties of the world , congratulations sinn fein who are now among a band of brethren , that you sought for so long , at the expense of the working class brave and the bold . the real people who unaware of your true intentions , have put you were you are today . thats the legacy in years to come , you will be remembered for . the truth will prevail . and the brave people who paid the ultimate sacrafice will never be forgotten in the eyes of good and steadfast republicans and nationalists .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 21:04:37    806894

how did this thread go so wong

GerryMc (Mayo) - Posts: 218 - 31/10/2010 21:32:16    806907

gerrymc.
thats a understatement .. why did all go wrong ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 21:48:38    806914

I give up.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 01/11/2010 13:51:31    807115

I posted something yesterday but again it has been lost.

In a brief summary, Sinn Fein swanning about up at Stormont is part of the peace process, it is to get hard line unionists used to the fact that Catholics now play an integral part in governing N.Ireland.

Any nationalists annoyed by it are sadly lacking in foresight.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 01/11/2010 13:54:11    807118