still the greatest irish person , its a long list . maybe gerry should get it afterall?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 21:56:38    806141

I have read the preceeding pages with interest.

Firstly it is not possible for the IRA of any hue to "defeat" Britain militarily. It never was. So you need to be causing trouble and economic damage, but you need a political force, because the pen really is mightier than the sword.

So you need to be negotiating for a settlement. In 1921 Michael Collins did just that and got the means to have a united Ireland, probably by 1930 given the Wall Street Crash and the recession of 1929. The Brits were helping towards this by isolating N.Ireland from Westminster and it is doubtful if the statelet could have survived.

However the Irish Civil war changed all that, and instead of a free State Government causing agitation up North while consolidating in the south, they had to devote ALL their energy to safe guarding the new 26 county state.

So the opportunity was lost.

In recent times the current Sinn Fein leadership have done the exact same thing. The Brits/Yanks/Europe put pressure on Unionists, and in a few short years you will have enough people to vote for a United Ireland, IF THEY WANT ONE.

The only real danger at present to an inevitable United Ireland is the continuities, but they already know that.

I spent years and years condemning Sinn Fein and the IRA and pleading with them to give up the gun.

Now that they have done so I would be being very petty if I criticized them just because they happen to be very good at politics. I do not support Sin Fein or Gerry, but I can see they are doing the right thing for those who want a United Ireland.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 30/10/2010 18:24:02    806363

Another excellent Post Patrique and to a very large extent I agree with it. Once again the future of unity is in our own hands and only we can mess it up again. Please God do not let the dissidents do the work of the unionists.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 30/10/2010 18:45:33    806376

derryman.
please explain to me how unity is in our hands , could you answer me that honestly , and you also talk about the dissidents doing the work of the unionists , they dissidents were created in response of lies and deceit , i have absolutaly no time for hangers on or the diissidents , they will never have my support , but if i feel things are out of place , and need to be said , i will speak my mind , and i truely believe sinn fein have a lot of explaining to do , regarding the way its men were treated and dumped aside . thats my gripe , they were running with the hare and the hound for years , its not right , its that simple and its there the evidence black and white , if anyone cared to scrutinise it more , or forgive for saying listened to the word on the street . hence the dog . there is peace derryman , there is better equality i agree , we are in a more stable enviroment i am not disputing that for one minute , but i will not be duped by sinn fein ever again .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 30/10/2010 19:08:33    806389

a32. People were not "dumped aside" as you say. The war is truly over. The IRA/Sinn Fein WON, not even a doubt about it.

So you no longer need soldiers.

Simple as that.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 30/10/2010 20:20:48    806428

patrique.
the war is over . there is peace . but sinn fein have won nothing , and a lot better people than them have lost everthing .
the country will never be united . its that simple .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 30/10/2010 20:28:49    806430

Ta32
the country will never be united . its that simple

Anyone who utters these words has long since been defeated and any utterances from them should be regarded as such.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 30/10/2010 21:15:27    806458

derryman.
is that it derryman , all i said was that the country will not be united , thats not to say i would love to see it united , but your tunnelled vision approach to this whole debate has left you blinded to the fact , that they were incidents to ensure that , the flame that flew bright for years , was put out , in the pursuit of a more personal goal of elitism and greed , but you prefare to ignore what went on , and still believe sinn fein , they are treating the nationalist now like puppets , yes sir , no sir , what ever you say sir , we are no longer to be challenged , show me some evidence that certain incidents did not happen , but you cannot because you fear that if you challenge the leadership , you are a traitor to your nation , thats your new master s words now is ,nt that right .. do not dare attack poor old martin . so now stop your patronising and sarcastic responses , and tell me how this never happened .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 30/10/2010 21:35:24    806471

ourselves alone . study that more closer , ourselves alone to do whatever we please , forget everyone else , its just us , ourselfs , and its has been for a very long time , but we just not want people to know our true colours of deception and lack of integrity . our little band of the new social elite of the new sinn fein .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 30/10/2010 21:59:08    806491

The constitutional status of NI does not expect to be discussed by a southern Government for at least another 15 years, maybe when the time comes for a review there will be enough support north and south of the border.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 31/10/2010 10:49:40    806519

scruffy2donut.
SUPPORT. FIFTEEEN YEARS . MAYBE . CONSTITUTIONAL . yes i am afraid we will have to wait and see if the copper fastened pipes around the six counties are released . i will not sadly be holding my breath my friend .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 11:39:03    806533

Patrique,

Good post and one i agree with !! BUT what Ta 32 is saying and what i hear from many people on the ground is the fact that the leadership were/are too slow in explaining their stance and decisions the people on the ground !! This has led to a lot of the grass route support believing that the leadership has disowned them and distanced themselves from their own people and the feeling that Gerry & Co would much prefer to be seen associating and hobnobbing with British politicians than with their own. They are seen as distancing themselves from the people who put them there !! They have failed badly to bring many of their supporters along with them !! Also the fact that many of them are showing signs of affluence with houses in Donegal etc has offended many of their old followers !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 31/10/2010 12:11:56    806540

Lads this is exactly what the Brits want, us fighting amongst ourselves. Divide and conquer. We need to have a united front under the banner of Republican Sinn Fein

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 31/10/2010 12:22:54    806544

What the SF leadership have achieved in recent years is without any historical precedent. I think they have done a very good job in keeping the grassroots informed with respect to every major policy change, with community meetings organised throughout Ireland to discuss the GFA, PSNI and strategic goals going forward. Yes there are some who feel disenfranchised and isolated but sadly this is inevitable.

Adams and the leadership have done what Dev and Collins spectaculary failed to do, they brought the entire Army with them (bar a few). The IRA Army Council, Executive and Convention endorsed and supported the SF peace strategy. Anti - GFA Republicans are entitled to their opinions, I will not condemn these men as terrorists, they are Republicans. However their strategy is ill thought-out with no direction or hope of success. Brendan Hughes himself stated that the answer to 30 years violence was not another 30 years of violence, so where is the viable alternative to SF's strategy?

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 31/10/2010 13:45:59    806583

cavan_slasher.
first i want to reaffirm how much i want peace , and how i would to see a united ireland , but the way sinn fein has handled matters , while in secret talks , they were being heavy casualties being inflicted against veteran republican volunteers , it raises alarm bells in many parts of this island today , and all other matters concerning positions of power in which they dealt and continue to do so , while the people who have put them in the position they are in today , are long forgotten and the sacrificies in which they made , were ever we are today in regards to the goals in which the new sinn fein are heading in their elite band .

and the sacrifiies and the ultimate price in which a lot of decent and genuine republicans made , were not made to leave the leadership in the positions or places were they prefare to be today . bottom line .. all those deaths and imprisoment were in vain . sadly . but they will not be forgotten in the real peoples hearts who know the truth .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 13:48:23    806586

artisan.
adams and the leadership were the entire army ?
and what brendan hughes was referring to anothers 30 years , he meant that whatever we had in terms of spirit and determination as a nation was lost , and gone forever and another 60 years will ever bring that back , never mind 30 years .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 14:00:58    806592

pomeroyplunkett.
under the banner of republican sinn fein , seen what was coming in 86 ? , while the rest of us were being fooled

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 14:10:56    806597

Its all good and well spouting on about other people continuing armed struggle while hiding out in Roscommon.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 31/10/2010 16:22:59    806663

seanie_boy.
i do not think anyone wants another armed struggle for another 30 years , we have peace .
buts things were lost , and we will never get them back again .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 31/10/2010 16:36:22    806667

Ta32
I think you fail to understand the difference between Rumour and innuendo combined with misinformation and what is real hard facts. There are no hard facts to support what you keep regurgitating ad nauseum on these pages. You keep asking for evidence to disprove lies and fiction. You keep referring to how the East Tyrone element of the IRA suffered such high casualties. The obvious incident to look at then is the Loughgall Ambush. If you read all the FACTS about this incident you will see that this was the 3rd operation using similar tactics. When the JCB was stolen some time before the incident the crown intelligence services concentrated their resources in East tyrone. Do not forget that they were very well informed about this cell within the IRA before this. When the Van also went missing the intelligence services were very sure what was going to happen. With electronic surveillance Audio and Visual aids. (tapping phones CCTV and sattelite aids) together with many many informers on the ground (and most of these were probably not even nationalists) and some within the organisation the security forces were able to make their move. I would suggest to you that the Leadership of Sinn Fein were not even aware of the operation until after the event. The sucess of the IRA was in the fact that the ASU was largely responsible for its own actions. The Army council it self was probably unaware of the operation until after the Event. The orders sent to the ASUs were very much of a generic nature and never were operation specific. The Army councils role was to source and deliver materials to the ASUs. The ASUs were responsible for their own actions and intelligence. This was very much the nature of the IRA since Michael Collins and his Compatriots such as Tom Barry and Dan Breen. There never was overall control only a basic Strategy which was simply to keep them on their toes as noone ever believed that the IRA could drive the Brits out of Ireland only bring them to the negotiatoing table which the units on the ground not least the East Tyrone brigade succeeded in doing. That is where the Politicians took over and are now responsible for furthering the cause by peaceful means. I wish you would come to understand the grave harm you do to the very cause those brave men and their families gave everything for. They succeeded through their actions to give us this political chance and now you would destroy it because of rumour and innuendo.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 31/10/2010 17:04:57    806685