ta32 first of all fair play you're obviously very passionate on the subject and believe in all that you say. For the record i'm not entirely comfortable with everything Sinn Fein do myself however on balance I think they're taking the only path open to them. Tell me this (if you want to) did you vote for the Good Friday agreement or against it?

Sinn Fein are now sitting in Stormont but Stormont nowadays is a little different from the days when the Unionists had power, we all know the story of how the only bill Nationalists ever got passed during this period was the Wild Birds Act!! Like it or loathe it the Sinners are on route to becoming the biggest party in the assembly. If Martin McGunniess becomes First Minister I believe it will call cause a real crisis in Unionism as the Unionist mentality will not be able to handle it. This could lead to some interesting political developments but we will just have to wait and see in this regard I suppose.

At the end of the day if a United Ireland is eventually achieved, which I believe it will, surely a relatively peaceful path to that objective is desireable? What i'm basicallly saying is keep the faith, the only thing that can slow down the objective of an end of partition is if the Nationalist people become divided.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 29/10/2010 17:45:40    805956

Goodfella An excellent post. I also can not say that not all that This Sinn Fein leadership has done and said sits easily in my mind. But we (the nationalists ) of the six counties are being listened too we do have a say and hopefully one day we will be able to influence the course of politics to lead us to a United Ireland without the violence that has been the only avenue granted to us for some 800 years. Unless of course the enemies of a united Island succeed in dividing us once again.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 17:54:15    805962

Sorry about that previous post. Too many negatives in the first sentence.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 18:22:03    805983

derryman.
you fail to see blatanly what has went on , the leadership of sinn fein were a nationalist political party of the island of ireland , correct am i not , that means they are willing and stand for the people of this island , so why was there such a drive to take control of the army council in recent years , leading up to the peace accord , this is by leading members of sinn fein , we had militiary men there in place , but they were removed , were the leadership afraid that eventaually they would have to sell the IDEA to themsevles , that maybe if it was a balanced and fair army council , people on board who actually cared which road we were taking , certain dececisions and agreements would have never taken place , they almost had complete control , but elements and units had figured out the big plan , so certain a.s.us were systimatically wiped out , so then that would leave no more opposition , the the level of treachury they were taking then could go on . and there would be no more GOOD AND DEDICATED PEOPLE TO STOP WHAT WAS HAPPENING . people listened to the high authority and their messages of freedom , and wore it on their sleeve , on the same hand , they were being prepared to being expendable . and for the record derryman , i have always said i wanted a united ireland , but it is not going to happen it is sad i feel that way , but it is they way i feel , and i take my thoughts and aspirations for my country very seriouse indeed.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 19:12:10    806023

goodfella .tir.
yes i did vote on the good friday agreement , but i wish now that i did not , do not get me wrong i am glad there is peace , but it the way a party has conduted its matters in relation to it being a republican and a nationalist party , sinn fein can no longer call its self that , i hope and pray i will be proven wrong in all of this , but i think this is only the tip of the iceberg , of what they have done to genuine republicans fallen or living . my thoughts will always be with those .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 19:18:08    806032

I am sorry Ta32 but you are not convincing me of anything other than that once again the old enemies of Irish Unification are succeeding in their divide and rule tactics.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 19:18:43    806033

derryman.
i am sorry you feel i take my words lightly , but ask yourself in this instance who now is the real enemey of irish unification , and will make do for a few m.ps so that the people will that they are being listened to , and cushy numbers within stormount will remain in place , for a very long time .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 19:27:32    806039

Ta32

i hope and pray i will be proven wrong in all of this , but i think

consider your own words . The fact you have written them surely must raise the alarm bells in your own mind as to the veracity of the allegations being spread about Sinn Fein. So many people hasten to find simple solutions to questions and so many others have axes to grind. Is it not simply possible that the spooks within British intelligence and special branch were very good at their jobs. They have had generations of experience and networks within networks and I do not find it at all hard to believe that they succeeded in infiltrating the IRA and Sinn Fein. The longer the war lasted the more they would succeed that is surely obvious. Sure there have been many instances where the IRA infiltrated the crown forces and have had nowhere near the experience or resources available to the enemy. Why must we always feel that the blame must lie within our own camp. Why can we never accept that we were minnows fighting with sharks. But plucky little minnows that have achieved the right to pursue reunification by peaceful means. This is the first time in Irish history this has been given to us . Why now are we so determined to throw away all that the dead and living volunteers and politicians won for us

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 19:38:43    806045

the gospel accordian to RH. martin mc guinesss .
you are a enemey of the island of ireland if you disagree in our copper fastened approach of the continued occupied six counties of ulster . we did forget to tell our loyal electorate within the republican communities that the road we have taken , has not been taken lightly , that meant taken overalll control of a army council , which my comrade mister adams continues to this day to deny , and that we had taken harsh decesions to have our own taken care of in a thoughtful way courtesy of the S.A.S . which then paved the way for permanent peace [ that i do agree ] and our wee westminister pay cheque . THE END GAME .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 19:58:38    806056

derryman.
i have considered my own words and thoughts , answer me this what politicains fought i.e adams , who has always denied his part in the patriot game , we were comprimised at the very top derryman , accept that ,and stop believing counter spin measures by senior officials from sinn fein .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 20:02:32    806060

Ta32
I am sorry to say this but you sound bitter and I am afraid you put no meat to the bones of your argument. Peace will always be negotiated by the politicians that is the nature of war. Any man has the right to present his argument and every other man has the right to argue against it. In this case the leadership of SinnFein presented an argument and the greater majority of those within the organisations of Sinn Fein and the IRA eventually accepted that argument and as a result we now have a period of relative peace which will only be destroyed by people with a blind hatred of Sinn Fein within the nationalist community but also by those without, who have the propaganda apparatus at their disposal to hoodwink those who wish to be fooled..

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 20:18:15    806072

Ta32
Should I accept it simply because you say so with no evidence or Reasoning

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 20:20:42    806074

derryman.
how dare you accuse me of being bitter , you have not taken on board one thing i have posted on this discussion , you have dismissed everthing without a valid answer yourself , i have the feelings of ex prisoners volunteers and people who have paid the ultimate sacrifice at heart here , you have insulted my intelligence on a very sensitive matter , but you are forgetting that thousands upon thousands of nationalists feel the same as me , not at the fact there is peace , which i am glad there is , but the fact things were forced in place in many wrongs were committed to put us in the position were we are now , and it was done in betryal , were is the bravery and integrity in that , thats were i am exposing some hurtful truths , were many would agree , debate with me fine derryman , but do not dare to insult me , sinn fein may be in a strong position fine , but they can longer proclaim to be a republican one .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 20:29:23    806082

derryman.
no do not accept what i say , just because i say it , just analysis the past 30 years , of certain positions of trust and authority , you say the majority of the sinn fein and i.r.a leadership accepted terms of argument , THEY WERE ONE BODY AND SINN FEIN HAD TAKEN FULL CONTROL OF THE ARMY COUNCIL . were did that come out of , they had the trust of belfast , and armagh [which eventually lost heart in the known ] tyrone suffered huge losses in the years of 87-92 , experienced and veterans getting picked off left right and centre , the eskund was the beginning of the end , because by then they had full control to achieve whatever they wanted among themselves .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 20:38:31    806089

the gospel accordian to RH. martin mc guinesss .
you are a enemey of the island of ireland if you disagree in our copper fastened approach of the continued occupied six counties of ulster . we did forget to tell our loyal electorate within the republican communities that the road we have taken , has not been taken lightly , that meant taken overalll control of a army council , which my comrade mister adams continues to this day to deny , and that we had taken harsh decesions to have our own taken care of in a thoughtful way courtesy of the S.A.S . which then paved the way for permanent peace [ that i do agree ] and our wee westminister pay cheque . THE END GAME

That Ta32 is bitter. It is unreasoned and it is without any eveidence. I have tried to show you that every attempt to gain Irish freedom and unity has ended in division within the ranks and I am afraid you are proof that this has not changed.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 20:47:10    806096

derryman.
the times ahead will reveal everthing that should not have happened , and yes i do agree we should be learning from our mistakes . dev/collins , now hughes/adams ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 20:52:42    806099

Ta32 I have to say I'm with derryman for the most part on this issue,as we have discussed this before I still see no concrete evidence of the things you talk about.Weren't Gerry Kelly,Mc Guinness,Adams and others active republicans who gave off themselves greatly to the cause of Irish Republicanism? I don't see how they easily grabbed power and took people on a path with the wool pulled over their eyes.Most republicans followed willingly and we know this because it was all playing out for us to see.We know for example that Mickey Mc Kevitt,Francie Mackey and their followers disagreed and left.Other senior republicans stayed Ta and gave their blessing to the approach being taken by Adams and Mc Guinness.Fellas like Seanna Walsh,Brian Keenan and Bobby Storey and many others Ta.I don't think they are driving about in limos Ta,they just took a course of action that they thought best given where we were at after almost 30 years of this phase of our long running conflict.I don't buy the far fetched conspiracy theories Ta although there just may be a grain of truth in them somewhere.Many people made sacrifices and compromises Ta,not just those that felt irked by the Sinn Fein strategy.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 29/10/2010 21:01:03    806106

derryman.
you have tried to show me how division has caused the final steps in unification , i respect your ipinion on these matters , but that should be rephrased how a power struggle can cause division , it happened before , dev being a politician , collins being a soldier , then was hung out to dry , nothing has changed , now we have a new modern version of dev , in the form of adams , and hughes and similiar minded true to their word volunteers were strung out and sent to their graves . you are right that is proof nothing has changed .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 21:02:52    806109

seanie_boy .
now we are getting somewere , a grain of truth indeed , , it was a barley field not a grain seanie , so that makes everthing allright , why did so many die in the afternmath of eskund , jim lynagh was a experiened volunteer with years of combat experience , and his team , brendan hughes for example was against missions like as was the other military man on the army council , but they were overuled by 5 members of the sinn fein who were on the council , they were sent out in big numbers , to be codenamed operation the tet. large scale engagements were encouraged at a time , when military experts on the provosionals were telling them to wait , LARGE SCALE ENGAGEMENTS SEANIE . were have we heard that before in history , then the rest was history , 8 good men died , a.s.u after experienced a.s.u s were being wiped out especially in and around tyrone , and i know the beano story , but larger involvement of treachury had to be constructed at a very high level , to result in such high casulties , in some very republican strongholds . why cannot anyone see this .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 21:18:12    806116

seanie_boy.
oh yes they gave their blessing allright , loughall was a warning to any dissent outside of belfast ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 21:23:59    806118