having watched "voices from the grave" the other night about Brendan Hughes and david ervine interviews they did before they passed away i would not consider adams a great irish man considering the way he betrayed a patriot like Hughes who was also supposed to be his friend

b.mullins (Dublin) - Posts: 1413 - 28/10/2010 18:03:14    805223

Brendan Hughes was a traitor to his country

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 28/10/2010 18:41:44    805278

b.mullins

I do not think Adams betrayed Hughes, the 2 men simply had vastly different views on the future of the Republican movement.

I respect and admire Hughes greatly; he was a soldier first and last, Adams more of a politician, a parting of the ways was somewhat inevitable. With respect to the actual programme, I was taken a back to hear an interviewed Brit officer commend Hughes for his bravery on fighting a professional infantry unit armed only with a pistol. Hughes had the respect of all within the Republican movement and evidently commanded a lot of respect within the British Army as well. May he rest in peace.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1794 - 28/10/2010 19:12:33    805311

b.mullins
County: Dublin

When Devalera nd Collins to mention only 2 participants developed different views of how best to advance the cause of an Irish republic. Which one of them betrayed the other?

And Pomeroy plunket which of them was a traitor to their country?

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 28/10/2010 19:26:01    805326

28/10/2010 18:03:14
b.mullins
County: Dublin
Posts: 210

805223
having watched "voices from the grave" the other night about Brendan Hughes and david ervine interviews they did before they passed away i would not consider adams a great irish man considering the way he betrayed a patriot like Hughes who was also supposed to be his friend



Brendan Hughes was acting against the wishes, not just of Adams, but about 99% of the people living in Ireland. Hughes was a soldier. Just as in any army, soldiers are expendable, which is the main reason no one should actually be one. But that is another debate.

When making decisions as a leader which affect many, individual friendship does not come into it. You could say John Hume "betrayed" his entire party and friends by doing what he did.

But we all know it was not betrayal, it was leadership.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 28/10/2010 19:56:57    805356

whatever adams is today he was a soldier also during the struggle and there are alot of people who believe he betrayed his comrades and i know this is for another debate but i dont think adams deserves to be put in the "irelands greatest" bracket just my opinion ............pomeroy pray tell why is Brendan Hughes a traitor?

b.mullins (Dublin) - Posts: 1413 - 28/10/2010 21:49:17    805473

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1695

805278
Brendan Hughes was a traitor to his country.

You are the traitor Plunkett. Some cheek you have.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 29/10/2010 08:41:02    805497

patrique.
adams knew what he was doing for a very long time , he was building a politicial powerbase forhimself and his elite few , at may i say at little risk to himself , i do not care what anyone says , he has betrayed his people his country , and the one chance this country has everhad of a united ireland , you are right about one thing patrique , soldiers are expendable , especially impressionable young disadvantaged ones , who were used by a tool by adams , to get his long term plan to work and phase out , on the other hand , you had the most dedicated and very wise and sound soldiers , like the dark , and lads from east tyrone who were on to him and his true intentions , and look what happened there in the space of 5 years ? , while people went out and risked everthing on behalf of hid false doctrine , adams was going behind everyones back , bit like running with the hare and the hound . what he has done is unforgivable . BUT THEN THERE IS PEACE .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 11:13:12    805558

PATRIQUE.
you say that the dark was acting against the wishes of 99per cent of the population , is that a official line coming from a other armed group who murdered the darks cousin , or was this the wishes of the people of the island on this instance , so tell me what would you have done , when bombay street lay in ashes , question really is what did ye do ?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 11:17:14    805563

pomeroyplunkett.
for the record plunkett , brendan hughes was one of irelands most dedicated volunteers in history , in the same brackett as liam mellows , tom barry , liam lynch , he risked live and and limb , day in and day out , to protect the nationalists of this island , he would have never sent anyone out to do anything , that he would have not done himself , he steadfast committment and dedication to his people and the love for his country , should be admired and respected , this man should always be remembered , and not frowned on pomeroy .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 11:26:49    805570

pat.
what i mean in reference to the darks cousin , it was the final nail in the coffin for the officials , whatever support they had , they had lost it when they executed this young man , who was very well respected and liked , droads of officials flew into the ranks of the provosionals after this incident , it could have been avoided . but another example of a generation lost .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 13:02:02    805664

Anyone who kills other Irishmen based on a whim or for the sheer thrill of it is a traitor in my eyes

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 29/10/2010 13:25:47    805683

ta32 I've noted before that you are in disagreement with Sinn Fein's policy/political direction in the North. What do you think should be done or what specifically do you think they are doing wrong?

Not meant to be an attack on your views, just genuinely interested to hear whay you have to say.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 29/10/2010 14:10:52    805729

goodfella. tir.
its just the direction in the sense of how a few within a party has had a stronghold on a party for a very long time now , and how they have deceived a lot of decent nationalists and genuine republicans with their talks of how the ethos and inspiration of a party should have a effect on the people , THE REAL PEOPLE ON THE GROUND , who for years have given everthing , their families their lives , their freedom , so for what goodfella , the same people within the leadership can continue on the path of wealth and power , and their limos driven up into stormount , the same place they despised for years , and now they suddenly feel that partition works as long as they have their bit of wealth , they are a dictatorship of a party , whose founding father arthur griffith would be turning in his grave , their direction and policy was simple from a long time ago , control ,power ,and greed , and the people who seen it coming were made expendable , like people were made expendable before like ivan bell , seamus twomey cathal goulding , control of a army council , and an phoblacht ... supreme power goodfella . thats a lot to take on by just a few . the same few are still here . but the people who gave their all are not .. thats were my genuine feelings are for . the forgotten ones , because believe me they have been forgotten , and everthing they have fought and died for . as for what can be done now , or if anything can be changed , honestly goodfella , i do not think many good people who are left have the heart anymore , and we will never achieve that flame again ever .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 16:24:59    805859

Ta32 has been consistent in his views throughout the N.I.debates. He supports peace but does not like the way S.F. have turned their backs on the I.R.A. men who fought for their communities and he believes that S.F. did not do enough to bring their own "soldiers" along with them or inform them of their plans. He might also believe that they "shopped" some of their own especially those who were not of the same opinions as them. I believe he has stated this before !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 29/10/2010 16:33:37    805870

pomeroy.
why would anyone in their right mind , would want to kill for a thriill . they obviosly cannot be to threatened or the people around them , if this is how they feel , i mean people some are forced to take up arms , when other avenues have been exhausted or palin simple they have been forced into a very difficult corner .
some times i do not get you plunkett honestly .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 16:37:44    805876

cavan_slasher . cavan .
thats precisly what i am saying . and the bit about the shopping at the highest levels this has happened , there is no question about that , well thats what i believe anyway , and i do support peace , its just the way a lot of people have been treated , andthe scrapheap that they have been put .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 16:43:15    805880

Ta32
I have said this to you before. But who benefits from all these uncorroberated allegations. Because that is what they are allegations only.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 16:54:42    805889

derryman.
read between the lines please , you know deep down something badly has been out of place for a very long time now , and as for allegations , they are not allegations members were comprimised for years , and more so , when they were not in agreement or thinking of the leadership , as for anyone benefitting from all of this , no one will of course , but the truth is coming out now , and should continue to do so , people have been duped , some of the finest and bravest of volunteers have been so , and sent to their deaths . the republican cause and self determination as a island united and free , is long gone , the country will never be united , and senior people knew of this for years , but continued to put good people at risk , for their own well being and power , and when they were being found out derryman , all of a sudden mountains of volunteers were wiped out in a short space of time , is that a allegation , or maybe a low key informant who done such devasting damage especially to some of the most experienced A.S.U . S .. i do not think so . but they will be no longer fooling me of their false desire for a freedom of a nation , or them in their pin stripped suits in stormount , while the best of them lie in republican plots throughout the country . very sad this is . BUT THERE IS PEACE .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 29/10/2010 17:16:01    805913

No I do not accept what you are saying TA32. And yes there were informers but to lay the blame at the feet of the Sinn Fein leadership serves only to divide nationalists and republicans. And that is what the british have been good at. I do not accept that this country will never be united and your chosen name would suggest that you also believe it will come about. However I will not turn this thread into a debate on the sins of sinn Fein. Anymore than I wish to debate the sins of Michael Collins and Arthur Griffiths Since what you allege against the current sinnfein leadership can also be construed and alleged against the convenor and Chairman of the first Dail one of whom I note you have stated to be turning in his Grave. Steering Ireland towards peace and freedom has proved to be a difficult and thankless Task for any leader fortunate enough to have survived the conflict. Whereas those who have died within the conflict have always been declared Heroes and Martyrs.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 29/10/2010 17:37:39    805945