hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2481

I live adjacent to one of them now, she's still in the same gear,,, not good

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 11/10/2010 20:29:51    794621

I would not be suggesting that you should not have an opinion dhorse,on the contrary I wish people from the republic would show more interest in and have more opinions about northern matters.You are correct in pointing out that the relatives of those killed or injured by the IRA would not likely be found holding them in a good light,thats not surprising.Its also unlikely that the families of the RIC men killed by Dan Breen,and the British agents and others killed by Collins boys,would hold these fellas in any admiration.Its a while ago that they were active though and we can justify their actions now by saying that they were doing it to free Ireland,etc.Nobody qualifies their admiration for them by acknowledging the undoubted suffering they caused to others.Tom Barrys a hero now,although he widowed many women and left fatherless many children,but we don't speak of them in this way,they were the good "old IRA" and the Provos are the bad IRA.I have said on other threads that conflict is not to be wished for or an aspiration to be pursued,but people are in some ways forced into becoming a part of these movements as the times and environments in which they lived propelled them in such a direction.Worth pointing out also that these fellas did not live in a free republic while the people of the republic looked north,some with dismay,some with sympathy and yet more with apathy.

agreed 100%


Why you are referring to yourself as a "free stater" is something I'm unsure as to why?Maybe a little tongue in cheek word playing?

It's one of the many names that some nationalists use to try and denegrate anybody that disagrees with them, i have no problem with name calling. It's better than flinging anything else. I think you are aware that this state has never been particularly free.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 11/10/2010 20:38:38    794636

County: Tyrone
Posts: 803

794569 dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6337

794154
County: Antrim
Posts: 2673

793877 Unlike you dhorse, you go on.....and on..........and on.

Why thanks!!!!! may i add your a fair aul goer yourself,, its called resiliance. We are the duracell bunnies of HS.

If only The shinners were of the same stuff, instead of packing in after a mere 30 years and taking up seats at stormont and calling their former comrades traitors and conflict junkies.

Some of them,the leaders of these organizations,are conflict junkies to a certain extent.They are unable to live in peace as they feel they would be lost and without any more purpose.Didn't see yourself as being an ardent supporter of these guys dhorse,care to enlighten us as to why you think their course of action is the sensible one likely to bring about a united Ireland?

I'm not a supporter of them in any form, nor was I of their predecessors. But as you pointed out re the Provisionals, at some time in the future maybe this new bunch will be heroes, as they already are to a small but growing minority of ferral youths. If you stand back and look at it, it would seem that the provisional movement didn't achieve much or any of their goals so in the eyes of people who support total armed struggle for a united Ireland it makes sense to support the people who are just continuing on with that struggle. In my opinion, what was needed was a joined up civil rights/disobediance campaign with an emphasis on bringing the working class unionists on board. But i think that there was and still are figures on the nationalist side who have no interest in social change and use the term republican to mask their conservatism, as it is, the north as part of the UK is way ahead of the south as regards social equality

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 11/10/2010 20:55:45    794655

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6343

794621 hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2481

I live adjacent to one of them now, she's still in the same gear,,, not good


Don't be spoiling my adolescent memories! Mind you Maxi is still pretty hot.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 12/10/2010 08:14:23    794733

11/10/2010 20:29:51
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6343

794621 hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2481

I live adjacent to one of them now, she's still in the same gear
_____________
Caravan ?

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 12/10/2010 10:04:23    794777

Omar.d
County: Cavan
Posts: 593

794777 11/10/2010 20:29:51
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6343

794621 hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2481

I live adjacent to one of them now, she's still in the same gear
_____________
Caravan ?

Was looking like that for a while ok. It was the clobber i was referring to, canner ewe dressed as lamb

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 12/10/2010 10:29:26    794798

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 9901

794565 omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2441

I am still struggling to understand how you got out of Bellaghy in one piece if the above coversation actually took place


I said "I am from Andytown".

After they stopped grovelling, bowing and touching my garments...................we had the music discussion

Ah, that explains it. You were in Bellaghy, County Mayo, not South Derry as I first thought

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 12/10/2010 10:50:43    794819

Omaghredhand

Is it not Bellaghy co Sligo

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 12/10/2010 18:06:51    795206

omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2446

and please don't tell me that you find yourself comparable to the Dubliners, the Clancys and Dylan!!



Have you ever heard Dylan on the bodhran?

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 12/10/2010 18:13:56    795212

12/10/2010 18:06:51
derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 1511

795206
Omaghredhand

Is it not Bellaghy co Sligo



It is indeed.

The other part of the Town is called Charlestown and is in Mayo.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 12/10/2010 18:15:32    795214

I have to say that I quite enjoy the Tones...that Tommy Byrne has a powerfull oul voice in fairness.

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 12/10/2010 18:18:09    795218

I'm not a supporter of them in any form, nor was I of their predecessors. But as you pointed out re the Provisionals, at some time in the future maybe this new bunch will be heroes, as they already are to a small but growing minority of ferral youths. If you stand back and look at it, it would seem that the provisional movement didn't achieve much or any of their goals so in the eyes of people who support total armed struggle for a united Ireland it makes sense to support the people who are just continuing on with that struggle. In my opinion, what was needed was a joined up civil rights/disobediance campaign with an emphasis on bringing the working class unionists on board. But i think that there was and still are figures on the nationalist side who have no interest in social change and use the term republican to mask their conservatism, as it is, the north as part of the UK is way ahead of the south as regards social equality

I totally disagree with most of this dhorse,except for the part about bringing unionist working classes on board.I don't know where you have been for the last number of years coming out with such nonsense.There was always a civil rights and civil disobedience campaign during the troubles,didn't you know that?Nationalists and Republicans can now espouse legitimate aspirations of a united Ireland in our own country without being labelled as seditious and enemies of the undemocratic statelet into which we were born.In the past we were beat of the streets and criminalized for it,but no more my friend.We have political representation now and can attain our political goals in this way.All this is due in no small part to the armed struggle of republicans.If there had been no armed struggle then we would still be getting treated as second class citizens in our own homeland."A Protestant parliament for a Protestant people",would still be the order of the day,but those days are gone and if anybody thinks that it came about because of unionist goodwill or nationalist pleas to the british government then they are sorely mistaken.
Why would republicans be trying to mask any conservative ideals they hold? As for saying there is greater social equality in the north than the south,I assume you mean we have attained recently the same equality as yourselves as we certainly didn't have it when I was a young lad.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/10/2010 18:37:38    795236

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 806

795236 I'm not a supporter of them in any form, nor was I of their predecessors. But as you pointed out re the Provisionals, at some time in the future maybe this new bunch will be heroes, as they already are to a small but growing minority of ferral youths. If you stand back and look at it, it would seem that the provisional movement didn't achieve much or any of their goals so in the eyes of people who support total armed struggle for a united Ireland it makes sense to support the people who are just continuing on with that struggle. In my opinion, what was needed was a joined up civil rights/disobediance campaign with an emphasis on bringing the working class unionists on board. But i think that there was and still are figures on the nationalist side who have no interest in social change and use the term republican to mask their conservatism, as it is, the north as part of the UK is way ahead of the south as regards social equality

I totally disagree with most of this dhorse,except for the part about bringing unionist working classes on board.I don't know where you have been for the last number of years coming out with such nonsense.There was always a civil rights and civil disobedience campaign during the troubles,didn't you know that?Nationalists and Republicans can now espouse legitimate aspirations of a united Ireland in our own country without being labelled as seditious and enemies of the undemocratic statelet into which we were born.In the past we were beat of the streets and criminalized for it,but no more my friend.We have political representation now and can attain our political goals in this way.All this is due in no small part to the armed struggle of republicans.If there had been no armed struggle then we would still be getting treated as second class citizens in our own homeland."A Protestant parliament for a Protestant people",would still be the order of the day,but those days are gone and if anybody thinks that it came about because of unionist goodwill or nationalist pleas to the british government then they are sorely mistaken.

If the armed struggle brought all this about why stop now to go sit in stormont, recognising the border in the process, as kingpins of one element of a divided community, why not continue on or escalate the war and attain a united Ireland if war they waged was justified.

I was well aware of the civil protest element of the campaign, the well organised SF rent a crowd would turn up at any event north or south, this had as much to do with keeping a stranglehold on their own communities as anything else in the absence of normal policing

Why would republicans be trying to mask any conservative ideals they hold?

In order to keep the people with a real Republican agenda on board while they seized power and get their bums on seats. If SF are to succeed in the south they are probably going to have become more centrist, ditching the few idealists they have.

As regards social equality i am referring to the equality between the socio-economic layers of society rather than the sectarian divide.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 12/10/2010 19:23:02    795270

Getting back to the topic, the WFs are probably accomplished enough musicans, I'm not qualified to judge, but i think they sing woeful drivel. However a couple of them had a pub in Brittas years ago which i frequented quite a few times early in the day and i can confirm that they make a fine stew

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 12/10/2010 19:27:03    795274

f the armed struggle brought all this about why stop now to go sit in stormont, recognising the border in the process, as kingpins of one element of a divided community, why not continue on or escalate the war and attain a united Ireland if war they waged was justified.

I was well aware of the civil protest element of the campaign, the well organised SF rent a crowd would turn up at any event north or south, this had as much to do with keeping a stranglehold on their own communities as anything else in the absence of normal policing

Why would republicans be trying to mask any conservative ideals they hold?

In order to keep the people with a real Republican agenda on board while they seized power and get their bums on seats. If SF are to succeed in the south they are probably going to have become more centrist, ditching the few idealists they have.

As regards social equality i am referring to the equality between the socio-economic layers of society rather than the sectarian divide.

You don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good dhorse.Armed struggle is viewed as unnecessary in the current and vastly changed environment.As I pointed out before conflict is not to be an aspiration,the opposite is the ideal.You certainly shouldn't continue with an armed campaign just for the sake of it as you seem to suggest.Republicanism is a political ideology as you well know and a military component in such a movement is not compulsory.

Republicans have always been well organized in terms of demonstrating,that is a peoples right don't you agree?Thats why in the constituencies where they run for office they are rewarded by the electorate accordingly.Nobody gets forced into a voting booth.

There is nothing wrong with holding conservative ideals dhorse.Its when you can't compromise with your political opponents that you become a polarizing figure.I personally hold ideals that could be considered conservative and I'm also a republican.Since when is it wrong to uphold the ideal of family life,an individual working hard to better his lot,or to believe in a certain amount of fiscal responsibility?You can believe in these ideals and still be a republican.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/10/2010 21:32:00    795346

Suitably admonished. There was no way it was in Derry anyhow

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 12/10/2010 21:59:21    795377

On the economic point,the north has had some of the highest unemployment in western Europe and is heavily dependent on public sector jobs,although this is gradually changing it hardly points to a strong jobs based economy.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 13/10/2010 08:46:10    795388

We're on the one road
Sharing the one load
We're on the road to God knows where
We're on the one road
It may be the wrong road
But we're together now who cares
North men, South men, comrades all
Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal
We're on the one road swinging along
Singing a soldier's song

UptheDeise (Waterford) - Posts: 225 - 13/10/2010 13:08:48    795537

I love that song deise man, the wee Polish woman's favourite is Admiral William Brown

CheFinny (UK) - Posts: 1358 - 13/10/2010 14:38:58    795609

I love Admiral William Browne! Excellent song. "With the Empire tumbling down, let no Paddies back the Crown. Las Islas Malvinas Argentina.' Classic!!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 13/10/2010 15:10:22    795635