My Polish girlfriend loves the Tones, great party music and I love blasting it from the car when driving round London

CheFinny (UK) - Posts: 1358 - 10/10/2010 13:15:51    793549

Good post by Hurling Spuds.

Many groups sing/sang songs which could be classified as republican. I myself even do a rendition of "Only our Rivers",(anti-colonnial song) and would play "Boolavogue" as an air because it is haunting.

The Dubliners, Furey's, Clancy's and even Bob Dylan sang "republican2 songs.

The Tones however made a career out of singing "CHUCKY" songs as they say up here, and then to make more money linked it for some unknown reason to Glasgow Celtic football Club, including videos which featured each member of the Tones walking past a camera and saying "up the Celts" which brought a sort of cultural orgasm to their followers. Making a fortune out of people being killed is bad enough, but relating that "cause" to Glasgow celtic is cringe worthy.

I remember once playing in Bellaghy and finally having to take this man aside, as he had been shouting for "sing something Irish/Rebel" all night. I told him that whether I thought the Hunger strikers were right or wrong, the people themselves obviously had strong convictions, and I did not think it morally right that I should make money by singing about them in a pub full of intoxicated people as I believed it would be an insult to their memory. Hethen agreed with me after he thought about it.

Obviously the Tones did not share my high moral conviction.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 10/10/2010 13:41:54    793573

I might suggest dhorse that you then refer to the people who lived in Bombay st. for an idea as to why the IRA became resurgent in the first instance.If its victims you are looking for there are plenty.I was essentially highlighting the hypocrisy of selective admiration.You cant tell me that men like Joe Mc Cann and Francis Hughes are somehow lesser men than Dan Breen or Michael Collins.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 10/10/2010 16:50:44    793652

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 9896

793573 Good post by Hurling Spuds.

I remember once playing in Bellaghy and finally having to take this man aside, as he had been shouting for "sing something Irish/Rebel" all night. I told him that whether I thought the Hunger strikers were right or wrong, the people themselves obviously had strong convictions, and I did not think it morally right that I should make money by singing about them in a pub full of intoxicated people as I believed it would be an insult to their memory. Hethen agreed with me after he thought about it.

I am still struggling to understand how you got out of Bellaghy in one piece if the above coversation actually took place and please don't tell me that you find yourself comparable to the Dubliners, the Clancys and Dylan!!

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 10/10/2010 20:09:28    793810

Thought she was due a mention Che :)

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 10/10/2010 20:09:53    793812

Hurlinspuds/Patrique
Have expressed it better than I can

- I love Irish music - my better half (who has a drawer full of AI fleadhs as a player and teacher) teaches it to the masses every weekend
As stated Finbarr Furey, Luke Kelly and co. can bring a tear to the eye.
The WT's are not even on the same page - I was stuck in car in the last 24 hours where the driver was playing their "greatest hits" on full blast
"Kevin Barry" and the brutal vocals are an insult to the man and his memory.
At the moment my understanding is that there are two different strands- the Derek "Group" and the Real "Wolfe Tones"

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 10/10/2010 20:16:46    793819

Omar.d
County: Cavan
Posts: 590

At the moment my understanding is that there are two different strands- the Derek "Group" and the Real "Wolfe Tones"
The continuity and the real, at least the provos knew when to stop.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 10/10/2010 21:40:55    793870

Unlike you dhorse, you go on.....and on..........and on.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9837 - 10/10/2010 21:52:33    793877

Patrique you seem to have spent a lot of time bating lads and 'taking them outside' (in Bellaghy!!) when you were supposed to be playing music. Are you sure you weren't a roadie with Led Zeppelin or the Who??

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 11/10/2010 08:14:11    793894

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 799

793652 I might suggest dhorse that you then refer to the people who lived in Bombay st. for an idea as to why the IRA became resurgent in the first instance.

Despite a lot Nortern Nationalists assertyion that free sters have no legitimate opinions on the truobles as we didn't witness or suffer enough, i think i have a fair idea on the origins of the provisionals.

I was merely responding to your query "Whats wrong with glorifying the Provisional IRA? "

I think that while some people may want to glorify them, some people especially those I referred to might be able to answer that question better than I, Despite what the provisionals did south of the border.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 11/10/2010 12:29:56    794115

As my previous comments on the Tones was binned by admin I though I would share two bizarre but true stories relating to the Wolfe Tones and Glasgow. The first relates to one of their first appearances at the now sadly missed Apollo. Directly across the road from the venue is the Pavillion theater who were playing host to Christy Moore (relatively unknown in Scotland at that time-apart from folkies) . Some insane promoter thought it would be a good idea to leaflet the Tones concert to help boost the numbers at Christy Moore the following week. I kid you not Christy was heckled by some of the crowd for not singing enough Irish songs and some of them even walked out.
Story number two I think underlines the view of some on here that the Tones exploited the Celtic supporters' (from Scotland) affinity with Ireland. Some of you may recall a player called Maurice Johnston who famously signed for Celtic appeared in their strip for a photo shoot and then backed out and signed for Rangers then managed by Souness. Cue mayhem in the city with the local press devoting more or less the whole edition to the story. Like many in that time the only link with Ireland was listening to RTE radio . I happened to tune into an interview with the band on the lunchtime news . The signing co-incided with one of the many Wolfe Tones anniversary albums. Anyway, I'm sure it was Pat kenny the interviewer asked the band how they thought the celtic fans would react to Mo Johnston for signing for the forces of darkness. They actually said although the fans would be upset for a time they felt sure that he would get a warm welcome when he played at Celtic Park! Talk about being totally out of touch with reality. Johnston had to have bodyguards everywhere he went to protect him from both Celtic and Rangers fans both of whom detested him for different reasons. Eventually he moved to USA.

I have great respect for the Tones for keeping the memory of so many forgotten patriots alive, but their link up with chucky our la la boys in Glasgow hasn't done their reputation much good.

thistle_harps (UK) - Posts: 879 - 11/10/2010 12:50:12    794144

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2478

793894 Patrique you seem to have spent a lot of time bating lads and 'taking them outside' (in Bellaghy!!) when you were supposed to be playing music. Are you sure you weren't a roadie with Led Zeppelin or the Who??


Maxi Dick and Twink maybe

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 11/10/2010 12:50:38    794146

County: Antrim
Posts: 2673

793877 Unlike you dhorse, you go on.....and on..........and on.

Why thanks!!!!! may i add your a fair aul goer yourself,, its called resiliance. We are the duracell bunnies of HS.

If only The shinners were of the same stuff, instead of packing in after a mere 30 years and taking up seats at stormont and calling their former comrades traitors and conflict junkies.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 11/10/2010 12:56:35    794154

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6333

794146 hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2478



Maxi Dick and Twink maybe

They were a pretty rough crew alright! I remember them for a different reason as an impressionable 13 year old. Girls dressed in shiny silver suits. Mmmmmm. But, anyway, that's not a story for this forum!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 11/10/2010 13:43:30    794206

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6337

794115
seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 799

793652 I might suggest dhorse that you then refer to the people who lived in Bombay st. for an idea as to why the IRA became resurgent in the first instance.

Despite a lot Nortern Nationalists assertyion that free sters have no legitimate opinions on the truobles as we didn't witness or suffer enough, i think i have a fair idea on the origins of the provisionals.

I was merely responding to your query "Whats wrong with glorifying the Provisional IRA? "

I think that while some people may want to glorify them, some people especially those I referred to might be able to answer that question better than I, Despite what the provisionals did south of the border.

I would not be suggesting that you should not have an opinion dhorse,on the contrary I wish people from the republic would show more interest in and have more opinions about northern matters.You are correct in pointing out that the relatives of those killed or injured by the IRA would not likely be found holding them in a good light,thats not surprising.Its also unlikely that the families of the RIC men killed by Dan Breen,and the British agents and others killed by Collins boys,would hold these fellas in any admiration.Its a while ago that they were active though and we can justify their actions now by saying that they were doing it to free Ireland,etc.Nobody qualifies their admiration for them by acknowledging the undoubted suffering they caused to others.Tom Barrys a hero now,although he widowed many women and left fatherless many children,but we don't speak of them in this way,they were the good "old IRA" and the Provos are the bad IRA.I have said on other threads that conflict is not to be wished for or an aspiration to be pursued,but people are in some ways forced into becoming a part of these movements as the times and environments in which they lived propelled them in such a direction.Worth pointing out also that these fellas did not live in a free republic while the people of the republic looked north,some with dismay,some with sympathy and yet more with apathy.
Why you are referring to yourself as a "free stater" is something I'm unsure as to why?Maybe a little tongue in cheek word playing?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/10/2010 19:08:37    794539

omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2441

I am still struggling to understand how you got out of Bellaghy in one piece if the above coversation actually took place


I said "I am from Andytown".

After they stopped grovelling, bowing and touching my garments...................we had the music discussion.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 11/10/2010 19:39:11    794565

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 6337

794154
County: Antrim
Posts: 2673

793877 Unlike you dhorse, you go on.....and on..........and on.

Why thanks!!!!! may i add your a fair aul goer yourself,, its called resiliance. We are the duracell bunnies of HS.

If only The shinners were of the same stuff, instead of packing in after a mere 30 years and taking up seats at stormont and calling their former comrades traitors and conflict junkies.

Some of them,the leaders of these organizations,are conflict junkies to a certain extent.They are unable to live in peace as they feel they would be lost and without any more purpose.Didn't see yourself as being an ardent supporter of these guys dhorse,care to enlighten us as to why you think their course of action is the sensible one likely to bring about a united Ireland?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/10/2010 19:42:45    794569

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 9901

794565
omaghredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2441

I am still struggling to understand how you got out of Bellaghy in one piece if the above coversation actually took place


I said "I am from Andytown".

After they stopped grovelling, bowing and touching my garments...................we had the music discussion.

Quick thinking saved the day then Patrique.Just as well you had the good sense to be telling half truths.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/10/2010 19:56:31    794585

Ah the Wolfe Tones the Irish E.L.O.

LesBleus (UK) - Posts: 102 - 11/10/2010 20:24:06    794610

patrique
County: Antrim
Posts: 9901


After they stopped grovelling, bowing and touching my garments...................

Was that inner or outer?

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 11/10/2010 20:27:09    794616