derryman
County: Derry

Is the bishop of rome Head of this Universal church you speak of?

I didn't realise we were praying for the succession of rampant capitalism in russia, I actually thought we wanted them to become R.C.. if i had known i would have said them with more vigour. Does the church think the present set up in russia as favourable to the greater good?

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 20/09/2010 18:20:36    779412

derryman, a quick question. How many people are actually "catholic" by your definition?

Being catholic to me means:

- you are strongly against IVF
- you are against stem cell research, which could possibly lead to many medical breakthroughs and actively campaign to have state funding for this research blocked
- you believe in transubstantiation - i.e. that every sunday your priest magically transforms wafers and wine into flesh and blood, which you then eat/drink
- you refrain from all sexual activity until marriage
- you are strongly against divorce
- you believe church law is more important than state law, and will knowingly protect criminals from prosecution in the state courts, instead giving offenders "penance" and moving them around
- you will refuse to recommend the use of contraception to sexually active people, despite the prospect of them contracting HIV and spread untruths about condoms

This is catholic "morality".

I would hazard a guess that less than 20% of Irish people are truly catholic, and the age profile of these people would be quite old.

morris (USA) - Posts: 302 - 20/09/2010 18:45:08    779444

Dhorse
as my mother would say you could argue the hind leg of a stool

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 20/09/2010 19:15:47    779485

millhouse
County: Meath
Posts: 693

776407
dell i think you are better staying away from this topic, you are awy out of your league here

Says the man that cant put up a argument.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 20/09/2010 19:31:49    779504

derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 1436

779485 Dhorse
as my mother would say you could argue the hind leg of a stool

I strongly disagree.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 20/09/2010 20:15:14    779580

Morris Part one

As I have stated clearly before I do not speak for the Church only for me. I am not a theologian so will not offer theologies because you have cherry picked some issues that appear to be easy targets to undo an uneducated believer.
I will try to give you my answers not the answers of the Church
IVF and stem cell research are above my limited understanding for me to give an adequate explanation of any position least of all the Church. And to be quite honest I dont give them a lot of thought as I have no personal experience of them. But My simple thoughts would be That these could lead to selection of certain characteristics and qualities in the unborn and the mass disposal of those that do not fit the bill. And when we have mastered the control of this then we advance very quickly to Aldous Huxleys "Brave New World". We may learn to create the perfect humans but something tells me that will not be a desirable scenario.
Transubstantiation.
Now that is a big word is it not. Big enough to trip up believers and non believers alike. Again I offer my understanding. Jesus gave us these words in the Gospels and if you do not accept the Gospels then the words and meaning thereof are irrelevant. I dont believe there is anything magical about jesus coming down from heaven at the mass. But i do believe each believer bring Jesus to Church with them. This Divine Presence is always with us but in the Mass with the Communal prayer the Divine presence takes on a special meaning and the congregation partakes of the real presence in the Communion Meal. We are then all one body with Christ which makes the Church the body of Christ. So for me and the other believers it is the real body of Christ. It is a matter of faith which is gifted to all but not accepted by all.
In all honesty I do not think about the priorities of Church and state law. I dont see that I have any conflict with either. In relation to the matter of the confessional I will try once again to give my limited understanding. Again the idea of confessions comes straight from the Gospels we believe once again that it is a commission bestowed upon the church by Christ himself. It is also believed that the penitant sinner (and you really should give that some thought to understand the implications of what follows) confesses his sins to God. The Priest in the confessional is only a visible medium for the sinner to confess to and for the church to bestow the sacrament of reconciliation. It is my understanding that the unpenitant sinner will not actually partake of the sacrament in other words confessions without sorrow fools no one but yourself. So the reasoning behind the sanctity of the confessional is that It is between God and the sinner and therefore the priest cannot break that trust. However I believe a truly penitant sinner will do the right thing and go to the authorities.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 20/09/2010 20:49:30    779647

Morris part Two
Your other 3 items I will deal with as one as they are all about Sex which I find so many detractors of the Catholic churches teachings seem to be hung up on. It is taught by the church, and I find this to be a truly reasonable belief that if we have a stable monogamous relationship society will benefit. I do not find that to be in any way contrary to the wellbeing of society. To me it seems very simple if you have one faithful partner you will not contract aids through sexual activity. If you believe this then any other teaching about how to avoid aids is in fact an attack upon the first, a contradiction of what I believe.


Now May I stress once again that these are my thoughts and beliefs and I do not in any way speak with authority. I do not expect that you or others will suddenly adjust your mindset, beliefs or values based on these ramblings above but I would ask you to respect my right to hold my beliefs and values which I have tried to put into words. I thank you for the opportunity to put my beliefs under a microscope and I am pleased that I like what i discovered there.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 20/09/2010 20:50:17    779651

Dhorse

See

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 20/09/2010 20:51:14    779655

just back from the uk protesting against the pope what have i missed

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 20/09/2010 20:53:12    779659

dhorse.
derryman is right you would argue the hind leg of a chair . lol. ;]

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 20/09/2010 20:55:41    779662

hipster
County: Dublin
Posts: 1809

779659
just back from the uk protesting against the pope what have i missed

1 wum or 2 telling vibs again.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 20/09/2010 21:11:00    779707

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2590

779662 dhorse.
derryman is right you would argue the hind leg of a chair

He actually said a stool

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 20/09/2010 21:12:28    779711

Dhorse
Just to clarify. Christ is the head of the Universal Church. Her Majesty the queen is the head of the Church of England. And Pope Gregory is the head of the Roman Catholic Church. I am afraid that is the extent of my knowledge re the heads of Churches.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 20/09/2010 21:23:49    779737

its fibs dell and i did protest it is a democracy

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 20/09/2010 21:23:55    779738

Morris
True Catholics I do not know too many I certainly am not one. How evr i am a true believer and I and all other believers are struggling through our faith journey who know maybe one day i will get better. I take great heart in Jesus's parable on the workers in the vineyard.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 20/09/2010 21:27:07    779745

derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 1442

779737 Dhorse
Just to clarify. Christ is the head of the Universal Church. Her Majesty the queen is the head of the Church of England. And Pope Gregory is the head of the Roman Catholic Church. I am afraid that is the extent of my knowledge re the heads of Churches.

Whats this ratzinger lad the head of?

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 20/09/2010 21:33:50    779756

Just as i thought vibs nothing new there ,

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 20/09/2010 21:35:02    779759

derryman
County: Derry
Posts: 1442

779745 Morris
True Catholics I do not know too many I certainly am not one

They would seem to be as scarce as true Gaels

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 20/09/2010 21:39:28    779775

Dhorse
I hoped you were better informed than that

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 20/09/2010 21:42:22    779780

i hope you went to mass yesterday dell

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 20/09/2010 21:42:48    779781