.tribute he was taken off in '05 v Tyrone surely the greatest leaders are still on the pitch when needed most? Obviously Kernan felt differently to you.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 20/05/2014 21:12:43    1591034

That Armagh team was good but not a great team, they were blessed to beat Dublin in '02 semi and let's be honest here should have never beaten Kerry in that final they some how hung out for a win but anyone watching could see Kerry were the way better side

Ah that's harsh, Armagh were all over Kerry in the second half when the chips were down. Outscored Kerry 1-5 to 3 points in the second half apparently. The 2000 Armagh v Kerry games were great as well. I think that Armagh team came to the end of their cycle a little earlier than Tyrone and Kerry did, Kerry practically had two great teams in that era.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 20/05/2014 21:12:44    1591035

I think if we had the Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh teams of 2002-2005 period or thereabouts in this years Championship you would be getting pretty decent odds on Dublin winning it.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2014 21:17:22    1591039

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4903

1591034


.tribute he was taken off in '05 v Tyrone surely the greatest leaders are still on the pitch when needed most? Obviously Kernan felt differently to you.
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The man was 34 in 2005...he owed armagh nothing by that stage...he had a huge influnce on players.

.tribute (Cavan) - Posts: 360 - 20/05/2014 21:22:10    1591043

They won one all Ireland so it couldn't have been that big an influence.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 20/05/2014 21:29:43    1591055

I think if we had the Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh teams of 2002-2005 period or thereabouts in this years Championship you would be getting pretty decent odds on Dublin winning it.

Hmm it's hard to compare teams over different eras due to improvements in conditioning and what not. Kerry aren't the team they were and gave Dublin a great game last year.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 20/05/2014 21:30:14    1591057

Naysayer sure we could all say that about any team sport. I bet there odds wouldn't be as good if such and such from the 80's were still playing.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 20/05/2014 21:33:49    1591059

That Tyrone and Kerry team's were class in the 00's two of the greatest ever with Canavan and Gooch the two greatest forwards I've ever seen after Bernard obviously.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 20/05/2014 21:36:16    1591061

The point I am making is that those three teams (Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh) around that era were pretty complete teams and at the beginning of the Championship there was no clear favourite, Dublin came into the reckoning also. It is the last time I remember heading into a Championship that there were so many genuine contenders with genuinely strong teams.

This year Dublin are clear favourites because they are a genuinely strong team and also because it is hard to predict exactly who else will come out of the shadows and challenge (if anyone).

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2014 21:46:29    1591073

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4906

1591055
They won one all Ireland so it couldn't have been that big an influence.
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Very silly posts.....watch videos of him in the team huddle before a game and show me someone better.?...he'd nearly motivate the crowd from the way he got his team tuned in...true leader

.tribute (Cavan) - Posts: 360 - 20/05/2014 21:48:15    1591075

It's not silly it's a fact they only won one. Whose to say them teams wouldn't touch Dublin like?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 20/05/2014 21:58:30    1591083

MichaelO
County: Tyrone
Posts: 632
.

Hmm it's hard to compare teams over different eras due to improvements in conditioning and what not. Kerry aren't the team they were and gave Dublin a great game last year.

dublin werent the team they are now back in 2002 and were the width of the post away from that armagh team
almost knocked tyrone out of the quarter finals in 2005 when they drew
and ran the only team who have won back to backs kerry in 2007 to just 2 points

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/05/2014 08:37:31    1591093

hill16no1man maybe a wee bit premature to be talking about Dublin in those terms. By that logic Mayo with their one point defeat to Dublin in last years final would be as good or better than Armagh, Tyrone, Dublin and Kerry of 2002 - 2005 or thereabouts.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 21/05/2014 10:12:29    1591137

Naysayer
County: Antrim
Posts: 404

1591137
hill16no1man maybe a wee bit premature to be talking about Dublin in those terms. By that logic Mayo with their one point defeat to Dublin in last years final would be as good or better than Armagh, Tyrone, Dublin and Kerry of 2002 - 2005 or thereabouts.

if you actually read the post i was replying to then you would understand the point i was making
simply because kerry ran dublin close last year doesnt mean anything
as we did that for nearly a decade without actually getting over the line

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/05/2014 11:02:13    1591160

To be great you have to defeat great opponents. Muhammad Ali would never be considered as highly as he is now if not for the likes of Foreman and Frazier being around to compete with.

Armagh, Tyrone and Kerry were 3 great teams at the turn of the century.

Would Dublin not love a bit of competition right now? They are so far ahead of the pack at the minute.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 21/05/2014 11:38:58    1591187

And I was referring to the 'dublin werent the team they are now back in 2002' bit and I did say 'by that logic' as opposed to 'by your logic' thus acknowledging the post you were referring to.

Lets not forget Dublin rightly considered themselves contenders during that period - maybe the 2002 or 2005 Dublin team would beat todays Dublin team - we will never know.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 21/05/2014 11:47:11    1591193

JP91
County: Armagh
Posts: 69

1591187
To be great you have to defeat great opponents. Muhammad Ali would never be considered as highly as he is now if not for the likes of Foreman and Frazier being around to compete with.

Armagh, Tyrone and Kerry were 3 great teams at the turn of the century.

Would Dublin not love a bit of competition right now? They are so far ahead of the pack at the minute.



This 'so far ahead of the pack' is totally based on a couple of league knock-out games. We barely got over the line in our last two AI victories, we also had to empty the tank in both semi finals to get there. I would call that competition! Do you honestly think that if we get to the final this year we are going to beat our opposition by 10/15 points?

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8795 - 21/05/2014 11:57:24    1591199

21/05/2014 11:38:58
JP91
County: Armagh
Posts: 69

1591187
To be great you have to defeat great opponents. Muhammad Ali would never be considered as highly as he is now if not for the likes of Foreman and Frazier being around to compete with.

Armagh, Tyrone and Kerry were 3 great teams at the turn of the century.

Would Dublin not love a bit of competition right now? They are so far ahead of the pack at the minute.
21/05/2014 11:47:11

In answer YES , am looking for someone to stand up and be counted and bring IT , not the powderpuff excuses we in the capitol have had to listen to , home advantage , sponsorship , and much more , hopefully from the ashes of last years championship rises a real contender and by that I mean someone prepared to go toe to toe over the next 3-4 years not just give us one good game ., Believe it or not thats what we want , then if we are successful we can call ourselves great .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 21/05/2014 12:00:51    1591200

I think the 'so far ahead of the pack' comes more from looking around and finding it difficult to define who the main threats will be this summer. As I have said before ten years ago or so you would have found it difficult to pick from Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and Armagh for starters.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 21/05/2014 12:10:09    1591206

Naysayer
County: Antrim
Posts: 405

1591193
And I was referring to the 'dublin werent the team they are now back in 2002' bit and I did say 'by that logic' as opposed to 'by your logic' thus acknowledging the post you were referring to.

Lets not forget Dublin rightly considered themselves contenders during that period - maybe the 2002 or 2005 Dublin team would beat todays Dublin team - we will never know.


the dublin 2002-2005 wouldnt land a blow on the present dublin team
you know full well that would be the case
as while we could attack pretty well in them days we had a full back and that was it for the defence
their is also a massive differance in the managment teams from then to now
lyons was all about hyping everything up and although initially he would have to be praised for giving youth its chance
lets not forget it was him that made cluxton number 1, brought alan brogan,ray cosgrove and few others into the team from nowhere at the time but as with offaly his managment skills were found out after the first season as after hammering louth playing
very good football he made 5 changes to the team to play laois in the semi final in 2003 and some of them were bizarre to say the least,that was were he started his own downfall by losing the plot with team selections.
pillar caffrey had a far better set up then lyons even he was just very unlucky in a couple of really big games and that team lacked
self belief to get over the line at the business end
the dublin team from 2005-2009 was a far better team even then the 2002-2005 side

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/05/2014 12:10:44    1591208