Am I the victim of a wind-up?
Fact: Germany attempted to invade Britain and failed, in what is now known as the Battle of Britain. The main reason for failing was the invention of radar by the British which gave them a HUGE advantage over the Germans.
Fact: Hitler had a plan named Operation Green to invade Ireland after Britain was conquered.

Am I missing something here? Can any one give me proof that, in patrique's words, Hitler had no intention of invading Britain, let alone Ireland.

throw_it_over (Galway) - Posts: 769 - 02/09/2010 20:20:47    763907

Derryman if you think Nazi PoW's suffered the same treatment as Allied PoW's in Japan you are very much mistaken. Many German soldiers even settled in Britain afterwards they liked it so much, the same can;t be said for Allied poW's

Dell 13 people died on Bloody Sunday. Roughly 6 million Jews alone died at the hands of the Nazi's, up to 17 million when you consider other groups. No comparison

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 02/09/2010 20:23:05    763911

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1295

763868 Life under the British would be like a holiday camp compared to a Nazi regime. Reading about the dedication and sacrifices made by Allied forces and from talking to my great-uncle who was a PoW in Japan it's both harrowing and inspirational what they were subjected to and how they coped. WW2 is Ireland's great shame



Oh yeah... Cromwell was such the gentleman!
The Black and Tans, sure they were only playing cowboys and indians!
SAS were just playing hide and seek
Paras were only jumping about
And Faulkner was just playing house in Long Kesh!

It was a cake walk, don't know why we never backed them up in WW2??

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 02/09/2010 20:24:44    763916

wise_guy. tyrone.
here here excellent post .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 02/09/2010 20:27:27    763918

What about the other poeple the british killed in the north including a man on his way to gaa game ....

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 02/09/2010 20:30:07    763922

pomeroyplunkett.
and ireland as a small nation was decimated by a famine , and countless other acts of ethnic cleansing by british state forces , so how many irish men women and chidren have been killed murdered or starved in 800 years of oppression , i would call that no comparision plunkett.
we could noteven put a number on it.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 02/09/2010 20:39:14    763934

Pomeroy

I did not mention Allied POW camps. I said British Concentration Camps.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 02/09/2010 20:40:17    763936

Dell you keep mentioning individual cases which while terrible can not compare. During the thirty years or so of the Troubles the British killed 363 people. In less than 10 years the Nazi's killed 17 million people because of their beliefs, this isn't even including soldiers killed in Service. So in three times the amount of time the British killed 0.002% of Nazi Germany. Even you must realise that this is a tiny incomparable figure

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 02/09/2010 20:52:44    763954

Lads the fact is that hitler would have invaded ireland if he had of conquered britain. Why would he have stopped? The british weren't thinking about us when they were fighting the nazi's, but they werent doing it for our sakes. This has nothing to do with the various crimes of the british army committed when they were here, that is another story altogether.

If we think back to WW2, am I correct in saying that nobody knew about the concentration camps until the end of the war? In this case nobody would have thought of hitler as the sick tyrant we do now. After WW1 and the thousands of Irish that died fighting for the british, Why would we have went to war when we weren't involved directly. If our government knew of the concentration camps and the evil of hitler then it was cowardly not going to war.

patmcgee (Longford) - Posts: 520 - 02/09/2010 20:56:37    763961

PomeroyPlunkett It is not about the numbers to be fair the bottom line is they killed these poeple.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 02/09/2010 20:57:23    763963

I find it an interesting theory that To murder 13 people is acceptable but to murder 17,000,000 is unacceptable. Where does acceptance get replaced . i million 2 million 10 million?

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 02/09/2010 21:07:46    763973

Derryman where did I say to murder 13 people is acceptable? To murder one person is utterly reprehensible but do you not see how killing 17 million people is on a different scale to killing 13?

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 02/09/2010 21:19:05    763986

Pats right on this one, a large part of the British establishment admired the Nazis and would easily have done a deal with them in order to safeguard their beloved empire. The British also liked 'order' and the Nazis were very good at imposing 'order'. Of course all this admiration wasn't one way, the Nazis were very interested in how Britain was able to subjugate millions of people through the use of a small colonial administration, with the connivance of portions of the local populace, as in India for example. The Nazis wanted to use a similar system in the conquered USSR and occupied territories in the east, with the assistance of Ukrainian, Lithuanian and White Russian collaboraters, until it all went pear shaped. A further legacy of British colonial rule which the Nazis were to replicate all over Europe were the concentration camps first used in the Boer war, now whatever became of them?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 02/09/2010 21:40:59    764010

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1300

763911 Derryman if you think Nazi PoW's suffered the same treatment as Allied PoW's in Japan you are very much mistaken. Many German soldiers even settled in Britain afterwards they liked it so much, the same can;t be said for Allied poW's

Dell 13 people died on Bloody Sunday. Roughly 6 million Jews alone died at the hands of the Nazi's, up to 17 million when you consider other groups. No comparison

Let's do a more accurate camparison. How many died at the hands of the British Empire as opposed to the Nazi regime? And how many continue to die every day, as a result of the British Empires colonialism?

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4164 - 02/09/2010 21:42:49    764014

You got the figures there handy 32? So to summarise the Nazi's were nicer all round people than the British, just a pity they didn't win then eh

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 02/09/2010 21:58:18    764031

I feel sorry for whoever started this thread, as it has nothing to do with what its supposed to.

Did Britain save Ireland in WWII?

They did a huge amount to ensure that we'd be able to live lives that were not dramatically different to pre war times. Had they capitulated, like France, Germany may have won the war, as they'd have only had one front, America would not have had a foothold in Europe, and Russia would have been isolated (ie no allies). They may still have won, but regardless, we'd have been at the mercy of someone for a long time and god only knows what would have happened.

There's a lot of British hating on these boards, often little more than ill informed ranting. Taking WWII, Britain did a superb job, and it would be sad and ungracious not to admit it, and the part it played in our lives (and indeed the contribution made by Irishmen to it). Don't love the British by all means, but don't unconditionally hate them!

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 03/09/2010 09:20:24    764069

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1301

763954 Dell you keep mentioning individual cases which while terrible can not compare. During the thirty years or so of the Troubles the British killed 363 people. In less than 10 years the Nazi's killed 17 million people because of their beliefs, this isn't even including soldiers killed in Service. So in three times the amount of time the British killed 0.002% of Nazi Germany. Even you must realise that this is a tiny incomparable figure

During 16 years Fred West killed 12 people, so in half the time he killed 2.7% as many people as the British army and they called him a serial killer. You can get statistics to show anything. Food for thought!

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 03/09/2010 09:54:44    764084

throw_it_over
County: Galway
Posts: 386
Am I missing something here? Can any one give me proof that, in patrique's words, Hitler had no intention of invading Britain, let alone Ireland.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have heard this theory before, ...Basically its based on the fact that some members of the British Royal family were sympathetic to the Nazis. They were of German descent and liked the way the Nazis had brought order to Germany. A grandson of Queen Victoria, Charles Edward who was an English Duke and Prince, became a German Duke and later became a leading Nazi who was tried at Nuremburg.
Add to this that Hitler considered the English to be racially pure ( of Saxon extraction the same as the Germans) and then his never explained order to halt his troops from annihilating the British at Dunkirk."A victory over England was simply given away" Wolfram von Richthofen, commander VIII air corps
In his will and testament Hitler stated that Churchill did not appreciate his sporting gesture in allowing the BEF to escape at Dunkirk.
Of course this doesnt square with the fact that he sent the Luftwaffe to blitz England.But he did give up very easily, i know he had to contend with the channel and radar but still....when fighting the Russians despite suffering horrendous losses, his men were ordered to keep attacking.
Like I said, just a theory but I definitely think he had more regard for the British than his other enemies. But I think to say he wouldnt have invaded is a step too far. He and Churchill were sworn enemies.

jarhead (Westmeath) - Posts: 285 - 03/09/2010 10:06:45    764089

Hitler saved most of Europe from Stalin's own invasion plans when he sent his troops East. Should we be thanking him also?

I'm glad we left the despots to their war games, but such a pity that so many of the young and impressionable in those countries were willing to and give up everything they had to become pawns in said game. Its that willingness that gives the Hitlers, the Churchills, the Stalins and the Blairs, Bin Ladins and Bush's the power and capability to destroy wreck havoc onto others. When young men and women give up the right to think for themselves and carry out bloodshed for politicans whose motives are never fully understood it is not something to be celebrated.

Nothing makes me more sick to see either the British or Americans or anyone dine out on WWII willfully ignoring and hiding so many dispicable acts they committed as well as the ones that continue on today in their name or carried out by others that they either facilitate or turn a blind eye to.

LoyalRoyal (None) - Posts: 465 - 03/09/2010 10:14:00    764096

Back to the original post. Ireland was 100% justified in keeping itself out of the war. In the mid to late 1930s and through the first half of the war, reports had eminated from Germany of Nazi oppression of Jews, but concrete reports of the death camps and atrocities committed didn't start to emerge until late 1943 at the earliest, and were only confirmed in late 1944 as the Allies advanced towards Germany. Even then, these reports didn't become widepread public knowledge until near to the end of the war.
How can anyone try to claim that the Irish Government should have entered the war to prevent atrocities that they didn't know about?

The war started off as a territorial dispute, and the initial beligerants were only nations threatened by Hitler's territorial aspirations, Britain (as a result of treaties and agreements with France), and other Commonwealth countries tied in by allegience to France. Ireland, as a small infant nation, had no reason or need to get involved. As the war progressed, De Valera's government realised that they were better served by an Allied victory, and as a result gave much more assistance to the Allied side than the Axis side (e.g. downed Allied pilots were transported to Britain, downed German pilots were held in detention camps). However they were prudent enough to realise that entering the war wouldn't serve the best interests of the country, and would meet with significant public resistance. Dev took a very similar stance to the USA, who had refused to enter the war prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Thankfully we didn't have any such attack to draw us in, and so we were able to maintain our policy of Allied-supporting neutrality.

Moving away from the initial post, those comparing the actions of the Nazi's to those of the British need their heads examined. Bad as the Brits have been throughout their history, they have never enacted a determined policy of extermination of a race.
Yes, the British were the first to use concentration camps in the Boer war, but these were detention camps, not industrialised death camps.
Whilst some of the acts committed in the North over the past 90 years (and the whole of the country over the past 800), have been disgraceful, but they never resorted to the arbitory rounding up Irish (or Catholic) people, and shipping us off to factories of death.

The Brits wanted us to live under their rule as happy submissive British citizens, and to work hard to fuel the Empire's industrial machine and to pay taxes to London. The Nazi's wanted to exterminate anyone who didn't fit with their Aryan profile. Trying to equate the just demonstrates the ingrained hatred of all things British that many on here seem to have.

black&white (Sligo) - Posts: 1628 - 03/09/2010 11:42:14    764183