seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 486

749942 Mes Amis says,"Should they use the Saudis rules on women also". Well Mes Amis it is not a Saudi inspired doctrine,it is an Islamic inspired doctrine.Islamic polity trumps all other considerations in a muslim majority country.There are agitators in these countries who are pressing for reforms,as witnessed in Iran after the last presidential elections,and more power to them.I hope they win out in the end.

All religions have been used to oppress woman (amongst others), not just Islam.

All religions are as bad as each other.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 18/08/2010 20:57:08    749979

Hipster,it shouldn't be solely about what the Muslim community want and to hell with the American people who are against the idea.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 18/08/2010 20:59:08    749986

18/08/2010 20:54:42
hipster
County: Dublin
Posts: 1608

749973 seanie about 100 people probably planned and executed 9/11 so why should a religion of over 1 billion be punished , now i have no time for religion its all paul daniels stuff they would have us believe hocus pocus
_________________
Not a fan of Transsubstantiation then ?

Omar.d (Cavan) - Posts: 1141 - 18/08/2010 21:01:02    749990

Not sure of the numbers involved in the actual planning and execution of the attack Hipster,but I can assure you that many of their co-religionists in the US and all over the world celebrated its happening.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 18/08/2010 21:08:17    749994

Did many of the posters on this thread not say in the Conspiracy Theories thread that the whole 9/11 thing was a C.I.A. plot ?? Have you all changed your minds ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 18/08/2010 21:09:52    749996

omar as tommy cooper would say "just like that" and seanie the christian church use to preach that women had no souls

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 18/08/2010 21:11:00    750000

between 2.5 and 7 million muslims live in america

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 18/08/2010 21:13:29    750006

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 489

749950
Oh really bad.monkey just where did I blame muslims generally? I do however blame a group of Muslims specifically because,and please tell me I am not wrong about this or I will be so embarrassed,I thought that the guys that did it were muslims and did it in the name of Islam.

in every post where you equate muslim with al-queda terrorist.

Just because someone does something in the name of religion it doesnt mean all people of that faith are responsible. that irish dancing priest ran on the track of the grand prix and the olympic marathon in the name of christianity and jesus. do you thinks catholics shouldnt be allowed near the olympics or grand prix circuits?

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 18/08/2010 22:00:50    750075

paddyogall
County: Mayo
Posts: 2920

749392 ta32 out of interest look at this situation. In 1993 the IRA Bombed Warrington. The first bomb reported no Fatalities the second bomb attack kills two children RIP. Ten years later in 2003 there is a proposed Irish centre with Community facilities for irish people to have a pint watch the GAA etc with a Catholic chapel inside. This centre is proposed to be built a couple of streets away from bridge street. The locals get wind of this and lodge objections. Permission is turned down to build this centre because of the sensitivities involved.

Now answer this honestly without no predijuices toward me or anyone else. Would you be against this Irish centre going in the area? or would you be outraged by denying it permission?

Just out of interest Paddy, same question to you?

And for the record I am with you on this mosque thing. A big media hoo-ha over nothing.

Derry_ledd (Derry) - Posts: 2093 - 19/08/2010 09:17:09    750112

The Americans have always had the problem of balancing protecting democratic rights against potential threats to democracy by giving certain people those rights. This is good example of that and while it is huge emotional issue in NY, I beleive they are probably right to let the mosque be opened.

Same thing happened in 50s when there was a real threat to democracy from the Communists. There were US citizens who were prepared to spy for and defend Stalinism - which was every bit as bad as Nazism - but the Americans dealt with them relatively benignly despite all the propaganda about McCarthyism. The way to defend freedom is not by abolishing it, even for those who are committed to replacing freedom with barbarism and slavery.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 19/08/2010 09:29:20    750119

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 489

749942 Mes Amis says,"Should they use the Saudis rules on women also". Well Mes Amis it is not a Saudi inspired doctrine,it is an Islamic inspired doctrine.Islamic polity trumps all other considerations in a muslim majority country.There are agitators in these countries who are pressing for reforms,as witnessed in Iran after the last presidential elections,and more power to them.I hope they win out in the end.
Juan Veron tells us about the heartbreaking story of the young British born muslim who opines,"YOUR democratically elected governments continually perpetuate atrocities against MY PEOPLE all over the world".Well therein we can see the problem with HIM and his pathetic and thankless ilk.This guy,and countless others in western societies all over Europe and the US,are typically born of immigrants to these countries who came there to make a better life for themselves.They enjoy civil and religious liberties in these countries not afforded people in the Muslim controlled countries there forebears came from.They have the right to vote and take part in a democratic political process.Instead they would rather sit around in a squat somewhere plotting against this very system because some crazy religious fanatic tells them its their duty as a muslim.They see themselves primarily as part of a world wide brotherhood of muslims.They have no loyalty to the countries in which they were born.Many of them refuse to assimilate in these countries as it would be frolicking with the infidels.The 7th century mindset is completely to the fore now and the only glory they can attain in life is to be found in the martyrdom offered in Jihad against their birth nations.Traitors the lot of them,again they are making it more difficult for the moderates in their community who want to embrace the ethos espoused by these western nations.Appeasement should not be made to these people,and although it may not be the intent of those involved in the New York Islamic center,appeasement by association would be achieved by going ahead with the project on that site.Again they have the right in the US to do just that,as said before the onus is on the muslim community involved not to be triumphalists by proxy,to stand with THEIR American countrymen by showing sympathy toward them over their lost loved ones,and being sensitive to their feelings on this very emotive issue.

Homeland security is recruiting. You have just about the right level of suspicion, paranoia and hostility towards those you dont understand. They're also short of border control officers. How do you feel about Mexicans?

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 19/08/2010 09:42:13    750128

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 489

749994 Not sure of the numbers involved in the actual planning and execution of the attack Hipster,but I can assure you that many of their co-religionists in the US and all over the world celebrated its happening.

I should hope you dont, if you did you'd have been one of those involved.
Of course they celebrated. There are a minority who support their cause around the world, their called Al Qaeda and sadly they exist. All AL Qaeda supporters are Muslims. All Muslims are not AL Qaeda supporters. Simples!

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 19/08/2010 09:52:00    750135

seanie_boyCounty: TyronePosts: 489749869 Taking pot shots at christianity in general dhorse,and Catholicism in particular is a poor argument.For starters it is without doubt that Jesus was a peace loving and kind man who never advocated violence.Mohammed on the other hand advocated and participated in violent acts in defense of his doctrine.

Jesus was peace loving (if you believe in him ofcourse) however the holy wars carried out in his name have a greater body count than Mohammed could ever hope for. Wasnt it in Jesus's name that the Crusades set off in search of war with the followers of Allah.

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 19/08/2010 10:04:08    750146

Does anyone feel the impending Apostolic Visitation is an insult to generations of Irish people who have suffered Physically Mentally and sexually as well as forced indoctrination and subserviance at the hands of The Holy Roman Empire.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 10:28:31    750177

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 489

749976 Yeah you're confusing me also with your nonsensical agenda of blind appeasement.

Perhaps your confusing appeasement with toleration

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 10:32:02    750180

BadMonkey I have not until this post used the name al-quaeda,and I have voiced my support for moderate Muslims the world over so your rebuttal is rather lame.If, at this point of the debate that is the best you can come up with then you should take yourself out of it now.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 19/08/2010 17:15:13    750766

LOL BadMomkey I just seen that one about the Irish dancing priest,the olympics and some reference to a grand prix! Your hilarious man.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 19/08/2010 17:18:02    750770

Corrxxx,I really didn't want to reply to you but I feel it necessary given that you seem to be another idealistic,to the point of extreme naivety, student or early twenty something year old innocent.You clearly don't have a huge grasp of the topic we are discussing or you would be able to compose and submit something more than two to three lines long containing the usual feeble, "but what about" or "you said this,so your bad" accusatorial remarks.Essentially,its not that you don't know what you are talking about,more a case of you don't know enough of what you are trying to talk about.It was great for hearing sounds you never heard before in songs you had listened to many times before,but it does leave you in an unrelenting semi stupor if you continue its use numerous times a day,everyday.

I also note that none of you including dhorse and Juan Veron have been able to come up with any solid argument against the points I made in any of the posts I have submitted on this thread.When you can't debate its just easier to accuse and refute without any real argumentative substance.For example,in response to dhorse bringing the Catholic church into the debate.People in Ireland and the world over have every right to be angry at the activities of the church that have come to light in recent times.This doesn't however negate the good deeds of the church.How many of you on here got your education,attended youth clubs,had days out to the beach,all thanks to the Catholic Church.Many of you also know that many priests were and are good and decent men.This is also a discussion that should have its own thread as it has nothing to do with the planned Islamic centre near ground zero.

To say that "the crusades" were a christian war mongering endeavour is a typically revisionistic and myopic opinion to hold.This wasn't one event at a particular time in history.It was a series of events over a period of a couple of hundred years and more.These events took place against the back drop of much social and political upheaval in Europe and the Holy Lands.I could quite easily at this point refute your argument by saying that it was a christian response to Muslim aggression in the region of the Holy Lands were they were plundering christian communities,murdering priests and the christian laity.I would be able to back up this claim with ease if we really wanted to debate the matter.However a half truth is as good as a lie and we are debating the mosque near the site of the 9/11 attacks,right?It would also be a good idea for you to take a look at what is going on in the actual real world Corrxxx,as you seem to think that al-quaeda is the only extremist group in the Islamic world.

I am off course more than willing and ready to continue debate on the original topic.In all seriousness though I will not be responding to any intellectual tripe posted as it really is a waste of my time and yours also.As is likely happening with you right now,you are fomenting your attacks on me.Bare in mind the words of Thomas Paine,"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,gives it a superficial appearance of being right,and raises at first a formidable cry in defense of custom.But the tumult soon subsides.TIME MAKES MORE CONVERTS THAN REASON".

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 19/08/2010 18:33:27    750865

It is also worth noting that a CNN poll shows that 63% of New Yorkers are opposed to the building of the Islamic centre on the proposed site.Interestingly though,and in keeping with my own opinion,64% of New Yorkers say the Muslim community have the right to build it if they so chose.
Another CNN poll shows that almost 70% of Americans in general are opposed to the construction of the Islamic center on this site.
So I am comforted in the knowledge that my views on the matter are in keeping with the majority of New Yorkers and the American people as a whole.It seems Juan Veron that the people you work with are an exception in this matter.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 19/08/2010 19:00:49    750898

dhorse-perhaps your confusing toleration with submission?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 19/08/2010 19:03:10    750902