madasbutters.
thats it keep going u are truely being the clever one hear at the expense ot the dead .
give yourself a clap on the back good lad.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 20:37:08    748761

ta32 my opinion on the matter is clear. I do have a few questions for you though;

-How far away must the Mosque be from ground zero before it stops being offensive? In miles, or kilometers if you'd prefer..

-Should Muslims be stopped from going near ground zero as they would represent the same reminder of the terrorists as the Mosque would? And should they be kept at a lesser or equal distance than your answer given to question 1?

-What connection do the Terrorists and the peaceful law abiding Muslims that would use the proposed Mosque have that would warrant refusal to build?? Apart from their religion, which is incidental. If you think the religious element is a strong enough connection could you explain why?

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 17/08/2010 20:41:38    748770

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2352

748649
juanveron.
u simply cannot get involved in a sensible discussion , u know why because u are afraid to be labelled or giving a genuine reply to this debate , u would rather attack someone because of their feelings and genuine feelings at that now will u answer this do u believe that the proposal of a mosque being built around the location of 911 is right , it is morally wrong and those who support this are insulting the memory of all the people that have died , and also the after effects that this murderes act has left people injured and emotalionally scared for life , and how are they going to be reminded every time they walkdown on along ground zero .
give me a break veron , and stop pandering just give a answer as to why u think this should be allowed , u have not so far because u have not got a resonable reply instead u insult people .

I hope the following isn't defamatory or abusive, If it is then I apologise.

I live in New York, I work in Downtown Manhattan (near ground zero) with New Yorkers of different faiths, some Muslim, some Christian, some non-religious. Some of them lost friends and family on September 11th.

Most of them, that I've discussed this with, think that the construction of this community centre and mosque would be beneficial to community relations. One or two of my colleagues stated they opposed it because it is an insult to the victims of 9/11. I can understand their misgivings but in my view they are wrong as they are assuming that all Muslims should feel a sense of responsibility to what happened. This isn't a monument to Al Qu'eda or built by them, but it is a centre created conceptualised by a peace loving US citizen, who happens to be an Immam.

Further isolating US muslims can only be a negative step as it will inevitably lead to disenfranchised young men joining radical groups, as has been the case throughout Europe over the past couple of years. Look at this video for example of a young British man radicalised by a society that he could not identify with. Notice how he (with a strong Bradford accent) says 'Your democratically elected governments continually perpetuate attorcities against my people all over the world the world' . He was a British man , born and bred.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc8IZvJWKwg

JuanVeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 1866 - 17/08/2010 20:49:55    748781

Freedom of religion? No-one is saying they shouldn't build this centre, just that it shouldn't be built so close to Ground Zero and so soon after 9/11. Why exactly is it being built so closely to the Ground Zero? 10 days after the Columbine massacre the NRA held a rally close by in Denver. They had the 'freedom' to do this and it was perfectly legal. However it was also incredibly insensitive given the events that had occurred days earlier in the same state. I think this situation is similar, while they are entitled to do so it is very insensitive to those who lost loved ones that day

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 17/08/2010 20:54:08    748788

madasbutter
County: Mayo
Posts: 839

Why dont you read seanie-boy's post and pick flaws in it? No, you cant, because every word of it is the true.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 17/08/2010 21:01:26    748791

To be honest the Muslim world as a whole needs to bring their people out of the 7th century in regards to their interpretation of Islam.They have never had a reformation,and this leaves the fundamentalist interpretation as the leading school within Islam.

Very similar situation to catholicism

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/08/2010 21:20:23    748819

juanveron.when are u going to wake up.
they do not see themselves loyal to the united states its culture or ways , they have been radacilised for years and people are turning a blind eye to it.
this is disgusting and humilitating to the victims and their families if such project goes ahead , they should do the decent thing and withdraw their proposal because they clearly do not care about what happened that september day .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 21:30:34    748833

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1227

748788
Freedom of religion? No-one is saying they shouldn't build this centre, just that it shouldn't be built so close to Ground Zero and so soon after 9/11. Why exactly is it being built so closely to the Ground Zero? 10 days after the Columbine massacre the NRA held a rally close by in Denver. They had the 'freedom' to do this and it was perfectly legal. However it was also incredibly insensitive given the events that had occurred days earlier in the same state. I think this situation is similar, while they are entitled to do so it is very insensitive to those who lost loved ones that day

A sense of scale for you Pemroy. Location wise imagine the Spire on O'Connell street and then the Custom house on the Quays. Not that close when you think about it. This is the same distance that the proposed community centre is to ground Zero.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 17/08/2010 21:30:42    748834

dhorse.
ahh what do u expect blind as a bat

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 21:31:25    748835

Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 755

748666 dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5783

Why are you and others trying to re-write history? First some "intellectual" claimed the Nazis waged a holy war in the name of Christianity, and now you claim the native Americans were dis-possessed of their lands by Christian crusaders. They were driven west by settlers intent on stealing their land, not imposing their religion on them.

Having christian establishments in the USA is surely an Affront to Native Americans who were dispossedand slaughtered in the name of christianity by the French Spanish and of course our friends the British.

Rewriting history? you are rewriting my posts.. Where did i mention Nazis. If somebody else said that wy put it down with my point? Where did i say they imposed their religion on the natives. i said the carried out their atrocities in the name of chrisianity.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/08/2010 21:31:44    748837

dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5789

748819
To be honest the Muslim world as a whole needs to bring their people out of the 7th century in regards to their interpretation of Islam.They have never had a reformation,and this leaves the fundamentalist interpretation as the leading school within Islam.

Very similar situation to catholicism

Your historical illiteracy should lead you to abandon this debate.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 17/08/2010 21:31:48    748838

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2359

748742 seanie boy .
excellent post.

I hope there's not a rift with your brother.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/08/2010 21:34:24    748842

sruffy.
have u looked at that l yet?

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 21:43:38    748860

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2361

748833
juanveron.when are u going to wake up.
they do not see themselves loyal to the united states its culture or ways , they have been radacilised for years and people are turning a blind eye to it.
this is disgusting and humilitating to the victims and their families if such project goes ahead , they should do the decent thing and withdraw their proposal because they clearly do not care about what happened that september day .

You have outdone even your brother for bigotry and racism with that post.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 17/08/2010 21:43:44    748861

religion the cause of most evil done by man

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 17/08/2010 21:45:04    748866

Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 756

748838 dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5789

748819
To be honest the Muslim world as a whole needs to bring their people out of the 7th century in regards to their interpretation of Islam.They have never had a reformation,and this leaves the fundamentalist interpretation as the leading school within Islam.

Very similar situation to catholicism

Your historical illiteracy should lead you to abandon this debate.

Your superiority complex has been noted.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/08/2010 21:48:11    748870

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2363

748833
juanveron.when are u going to wake up.
they do not see themselves loyal to the united states its culture or ways , they have been radacilised for years and people are turning a blind eye to it.
this is disgusting and humilitating to the victims and their families if such project goes ahead , they should do the decent thing and withdraw their proposal because they clearly do not care about what happened that september day .

Debate is a futile exercise with that poster. Entirely conjecture.

JuanVeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 1866 - 17/08/2010 21:49:41    748878

ogall.
what u say in the slightest does not trouble me or what u try to insuate because i know your intentions are not genuine , comical chap really.
the sad thing about is u cannot even understand or see how this would upset a lot of new yorkers , maybe u should addrese them and accuse them what u have just said to me , but u would not would u , laughable u are.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 21:53:43    748884

dhorse it seems islam = evil , christians = good

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 17/08/2010 21:55:00    748888

JuanVeron
County: Westmeath
Posts: 1773

748878 ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2363

748833
juanveron.when are u going to wake up.
they do not see themselves loyal to the united states its culture or ways , they have been radacilised for years and people are turning a blind eye to it.
this is disgusting and humilitating to the victims and their families if such project goes ahead , they should do the decent thing and withdraw their proposal because they clearly do not care about what happened that september day .

Debate is a futile exercise with that poster. Entirely conjecture.

Tow the line you.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/08/2010 21:55:25    748891