this is the third attempt now ?
rhoejim.offaly.
i am no spokeperson for the families of 911 or a spokeperson on behalf of manhattan or new york for that matter[ but if something u do not agree with u speak out against its called free speech the fact of the matter is this proposal of a mosque being built in and around the site of 911 is wrong its that simple .

now as for spelling mistakes if this is a way of debating against someones valid points , then i am afraid u have already lost your argument .
also never said innocent muslims were never victims of all of this , so i do not know were u got that idea from.
using the irish problem in a debate as sensitive as this is actually very sad , i mean trying to link the two , clearly u are using this as a way of winning a argument when it clearly shows your intentions are not genuine in all of this .
it is true no one asked my permission in building a mosque near the site of 911 , but the victims also never asked for 747s to driven into their place of work , if u want to take that as browning well be my guest , u are clearly missing something , if u want to discuss the reasons or rights or wrongs of this proposal of the site in question i will gladly debate it , but petty insults will undermine your intent in all of this , do u think it right this plan should go ahead or not .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 14:07:31    748151

Seems Obama has backtracked a little over this issue as polls show two thirds of Americans are against it. No-one is saying all Muslims are terrorists but it is undeniable that Islam inspired this attack. Of course it is their right to build this Islam centre where they want it but it would show a lot of understanding if they built it away from the immediate vicinity of Ground Zero

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 17/08/2010 14:30:19    748195

Ta32
" the fact of the matter is this proposal of a mosque being built in and around the site of 911 is wrong its that simple "

Why is it wrong? Why is it that simple?
America is moving on, why cant you? Freedom in America is given to every person. If this proposal is stopped on religious grounds, then whats to stop muslims objecting whenever some one wants to build a Church near a muslim home?


Look, this isnt ment as a sneer or anything, but please do a quick read of your posts. I could be missing something because i dont know where your sentences are starting

Rhodejim (Offaly) - Posts: 2888 - 17/08/2010 14:35:19    748203

rhodejim.
i believe people should move on , time is a healer they say .
but this not about the religion of one faith , this is about something being built at a sensitive area , why not build it elswere america is a huge country it is wrong to build a mosque in and around the site of ground zero i think i am making myself very clear here , and if u want to use the argument of a church being built near a muslim home i will haveu know this , there is not even a christian church allowed to be built in a muslim country never mind a house.

now if u want to keep bringing up my grammer be my guest , because if thats all u have well good luck to ye , u just do not grasp the sensitivity thats is being invovled here .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 14:47:58    748223

pomeroyplunkett.
well said , at least someone is showing they can read the sensitive nature at hand here .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 15:16:34    748258

, there is not even a christian church allowed to be built in a muslim country never mind a house.

Well, see I have a problem with that. Should America, the land of the Free, shut down and become like a muslim country? No mosques and turn all non-whites away? Are you saying, (now bare in mind that IF the mosque is built, it wont be ON the site of ground zero) that you would have a problem if some one wanted to build a chinese restaurant on the site??

As regards the grammer, i wasnt trying to sneer, just giving a helpful suggestion. Sometimes i just cant understand your posts. No biggie

Rhodejim (Offaly) - Posts: 2888 - 17/08/2010 15:38:58    748291

When you hold a man down, you have to stay down with him ...MLK

Bigapple (Kerry) - Posts: 495 - 17/08/2010 15:44:24    748306

rhodejim.
the point i was trying to make was this is no normal site , if muslims decide to object to a church being built near their house then fine , that is their objection right or wrong everyone has a right to object , so please to not be trying this into something it is not muslims have the right to built a mosque were they like , i believe this is not the objection here young man , the objection i believe is the sensitivity and nature of a mosque been built around the site of 911 , thats what this debate is about , and leave out the chinese and there restaurants , i mean were do they come into this discussion , first we have irish gunmen , now u are bringing in chicken chow mein meals , for god sake talk with a bit of sense and keep with the dicussion at hand u still seem to have difficulty taken into the account the suffering that was brought about that day , they are a lot of people who will not allow this to happen ,and it is for the obvious reasons and them reasons are not for disliking muslims or there faith , it is about the suffering that was caused that terrible day and the feeelings of these people need to be taken into consideration , this proposal of this mosque been built is wrong and it should never take place . now keep up discussing my grammer because i feel that is all u have .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 16:09:57    748376

For those of you who dont understand what the mainstream feeling amongst the relatives of those murdered is, lets take a look at some first hand sources,

"Barack Obama has abandoned America at the place where America's heart was broken nine years ago, and where her true values were on display for all to see," said Debra Burlingame, a spokeswoman for some Sept. 11 victims' families and the sister of one of the pilots killed in the attacks.

Sally Regenhard, whose firefighter son was killed at the World Trade Center, said the president had failed to understand the issue. "As an Obama supporter, I really feel that he's lost sight of the germane issue, which is not about freedom of religion," she said. "It's about a gross lack of sensitivity to the 9/11 families and to the people who were lost."

Self-described "liberal Muslim" Farzana Hassan, a Canadian, told Fox News on Saturday that she believes the Islamic center's location is "provocative."
"This is highly insensitive to the sentiments of the people who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks," said Hassan, who has written books on Islam

As Pomeroy Plunkett has already stated, poll figures indicate that the majority of Americans do NOT want this building anywhere near Ground Zero. Recent polls put the figure at 68% against.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 17/08/2010 16:26:58    748416

Hahahaha

Shouldnt this be in the Fridaty wind down thread?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 17/08/2010 16:31:07    748424

scruffy2donut.
well put scruffy as stated by me the feelings of the above and their suffering are being ignored or dismissed

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 16:43:07    748454

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2340

748258 pomeroyplunkett.
well said , at least someone is showing they can read the sensitive nature at hand here .

There is indeed a sensitive issue at stake here - the criminalisation of an entire faith. It's not on.

Most leading Nazis were Catholic, do we bear responsibility for their actions?

Should we be treated differently? Right wing agenda being played out here, its sad to see people showing such Daily Mail like attitudes.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1795 - 17/08/2010 17:08:24    748504

I don't why some of you keep going on about how the families of the 9/11 victims would be opposed* to the Cordoba Centre as if that ends all discussion on the matter. Of course most of them are opposed. If I'd lost a loved at the Twin Towers I'd probably feel the same. But how much times needs to pass before a mosque in Manhattan is acceptable again? How many metres does it need to be away from the Ground Zero? The fact is there would always opposition to a development like this, so America has to weigh up the feelings of the victims' families vs. the whole Freedom of Religion thing that's so fundamental to the country's make-up. (that's not 'Are you free to worship in America, or only outside pre-defined radius of a terrorist attack carried out by people who've misappropriated your particular faith?

At least their president gets it.


* Not all are, natch. From the London Independent: "Colleen Kelly, who lost her brother Bill in the attacks,said the mosque's memorial would be "a fitting tribute" which might help to promote tolerance and understanding. "This is the voice of Islam that I believe needs a wider audience," she said. "This is what moderate Islam is all about." "


Oh, and I'd made a bet with myself about who'd the first person to come out with 'you can't even build a church in Muslim-land' and I won. Good ol' ta32. Might want to have a looksie here. http://islam-west.com/2007/11/christian-churches-in-muslim-countries.html

whereangelsplay (Cork) - Posts: 240 - 17/08/2010 17:34:44    748536

would people think it would wise to build a japanese cultural centre in the vicinity of pearl harbour .
would people think it would be wise to build a german cultural center in the vicinity of auswhitz.
the same applies to ground zero , common sense should prevail here and this idea should be dismantled straightaway it is humiliting and degrading to think that no one actually is thinking for one moment how the victims of this atrocity feel .

one senior imam who is involved in the proposal of this farce is apparently made a quote referring to the united states were a accessory to this outrage on 911.
some neck allright , unbelievable .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 18:01:17    748557

artisan.
please come off it , how dare you how can you say that this not about tarnishing a whole faith , this is about a area that is secret ground to a lot of families who lossed loved ones at 911 if u cannot see that then u are also dimissing their feelings , and please do not connect me with the daily mail u are out of order i am merely stating genuine feelings for victims of this terrible atrocity , i also find the lack of sensitivity around this whole thing sickening .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 18:06:48    748567

World War 2 was not a religious War and as such the religion of Nazi's has absolutely no relevance. Islam has a unique connection and is undeniably a factor in the events of 9/11. Your comparison crumbles under scrutiny. To accuse those against this of Islamophobia is quite insulting if not entirely unexpected, as Scruffy pointed out numerous Muslims are against this idea themselves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Nice to see this argument lasted a couple of days before someone, who seemingly had nothing else of note to say, mentioned the Nazi's

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 17/08/2010 18:10:23    748574

wereangelsplay.
maybe u should have a looksie as u put at the list of people that were killed or murdered that day , or visit the families of the victims of all of this and put across your p.c. proposal on how everthing will be rosy for them , and then when u finished with that go down to ground zero and see what it means to the people of new york and wider america and how they would look upon u with your ill thought sentiments or lack of feelings for everyone affected that day .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 18:22:51    748584

There is that famous Quote "Hell is a place where there is no reason" and the right wingers here are dragging everyone here into hell.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 17/08/2010 18:23:20    748586

ogall.
traits or quotes because u well known for traits of the unsavoury kind , now move along if u have nothing else to add to this discussion.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 18:33:59    748600

People are saying that the people who proposed the Mosque/Center should show some tact and realise that this is a sensitive issue. Perhaps they should. But should America's reaction to this lack of sensitivity be a dogmatic "No you may not build your Mosque here" ?? Sensitivity is something that you can hope people will show, it is not something that you can impose upon anybody.

Perhaps building a Catholic church next to a playground should not be allowed in Ireland?

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 17/08/2010 18:35:37    748605