JuanVeron
County: Westmeath
Posts: 1762

747592
.. and think about the feelings of the ordinary new yorker.

You've been talking to them so?

Of course they havent Juan these "foreign" "Muslim" and it brings their xenophobic tendancies come to the fore. It doesnt matter if their argument is ludicrous. The sad thing is that this happened to Irish people in England after the IRA terrorist attacks and these hypocrytes would be up in arms about it.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 16/08/2010 20:19:04    747601

if the president of the USA says its ok well then it is thank god he wont be listening or reading the hate filled comments on this site by the usual gang

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 16/08/2010 20:32:49    747619

ogall.
irish revolutionaries did not drive 747s through high rise buildings , nor did they apply tactics that would bring maximum killing to cities across the globe .
now are we talking about the lack of sensitivity of the american people , or do u want to discuss john bulls tactics in ireland .. of which i think u would have been on his side considering the posts that u drive across , u would be all for his policies , i mean lets not forget how many people never had the dignity to burial for their loved ones , never mind the pain of never seeing them again , these cuts still very deep within the heart of the american community .. but instead u are more afraid of hurting the feelings of those who whish to pursue buiding a mosque at the site of this mass killing , there is something terribly wrong with people if they agree with the buiding of this mosque at this location .. and do not even attempt to use the race card on this . because u are disregarding the thousands of people who were killed and wounded to this day , and also the pain and suffering that concluded afterwards for everyone connected to this terrible atrocity .. so do not make a mockery or belittle their suffering by pathetic response .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 16/08/2010 20:42:28    747625

Scruffy: "however this proposed building needs to be placed elsewhere because it is going to upset a lot of Americans."

Ah the poor americans. If I was american I'd be wondering more why they were dragged into an unneccessary, illegal and dispicable war in Iraq. There are dozens of perfectly good regimes that needed changing all over the world. Africa alone needed intervention way more. If people want to focus on the fox news, sarah palin type controversy rather than lives being lost everyday in a war that should never have happened then I guess we're in an even worse state than I thought.

God fearing scruffy? Now I feel sorry for ya. Why fear the big man??

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 16/08/2010 20:52:31    747639

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2326

747625
ogall.
irish revolutionaries did not drive 747s through high rise buildings , nor did they apply tactics that would bring maximum killing to cities across the globe .
now are we talking about the lack of sensitivity of the american people , or do u want to discuss john bulls tactics in ireland .. of which i think u would have been on his side considering the posts that u drive across , u would be all for his policies , i mean lets not forget how many people never had the dignity to burial for their loved ones , never mind the pain of never seeing them again , these cuts still very deep within the heart of the american community .. but instead u are more afraid of hurting the feelings of those who whish to pursue buiding a mosque at the site of this mass killing , there is something terribly wrong with people if they agree with the buiding of this mosque at this location .. and do not even attempt to use the race card on this . because u are disregarding the thousands of people who were killed and wounded to this day , and also the pain and suffering that concluded afterwards for everyone connected to this terrible atrocity .. so do not make a mockery or belittle their suffering by pathetic response .


You just don't get it.

PO'G is refering to innocent, peaceful Irish people being classified as the same as terrorists who claimed to act on behalf of them.

JuanVeron (Westmeath) - Posts: 1866 - 16/08/2010 21:27:45    747683

hipster.
now tell me this and be honest , do u honestly believe that comments on here are hate filled , maybe they are genuine concerns and feelings for the people that has suffered in all of this , never mind what obama says , he is only a puppet on a string , and do honestly believe that the suffering of 911 are going to take this man seriouse after all his vote in the democratic state of new york could dramatically fall after what he is proposing or should i say being told what to say ... use your own brain hipster and stop for godsake jumping on the race card banwagon , because this about one of the worlds worst atrocities ever , and i honestly believe the feelings of the victims or their families have not being taken into consideration .. thats basically it , because believe me when i say this .. this will not go down to well in lower manhattan or the rest of new york for that matter.

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 16/08/2010 21:29:50    747686

juanveron.
i know actually what ogall is saying .. but he is using it as a way to have a sting at the irish problem .. to further his argument at the expense of thousands of dead american civilians which is nothing new with that lad .. problem is people cannot take into considerations the feelings of those who perished in 911 veron including yourself .. be honest withyourself and your feeelings these people deserve better i know they are innocent muslims out there , but this is not right , christ can no one see this or see what it could do . u say they are people out there tarnishing .. well tell me this what would happen if this mosque went up .. this would have a worse affect in relation to community relations .. but most importanly the residents of this city their families and the emergency services and hospitals ect .. have apparently no feelings .. another thing veron ogall is not genuine in his posts , and do not tell me differently .. and how dare u try and say i do not get it .. i am with it more than u know

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 16/08/2010 21:53:31    747711

ta you have to remember there is millions and millions of muslims in america who are living there for generations and generations , muslims were also killed at the world trade center so why should what happened stop a religious building being built , i am no fan of islam but i am not a bigot i believe people have the right to practice their belifes , but the big big problem is fanatical muslim and christians are so extreme that they are believed to be forming links and this is frightening for us all

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 16/08/2010 21:57:33    747716

juanveron.
i know actually what ogall is saying .. but he is using it as a way to have a sting at the irish problem .. to further his argument at the expense of thousands of dead american civilians which is nothing new with that lad .. problem is people cannot take into considerations the feelings of those who perished in 911 veron including yourself .. be honest withyourself and your feeelings these people deserve better i know they are innocent muslims out there , but this is not right , christ can no one see this or see what it could do . u say they are people out there tarnishing .. well tell me this what would happen if this mosque went up .. this would have a worse affect in relation to community relations .. but most importanly the residents of this city their families and the emergency services and hospitals ect .. have apparently no feelings .. another thing veron ogall is not genuine in his posts , and do not tell me differently .. and how dare u try and say i do not get it .. i am with it more than u know


Seriously?
What are you on about? your not making any sense.Stop me when im wrong here:
You dont want a mosque built NEAR ground zero. (not that anyones asking you permission)
You feel sorry for the AMERICANS that died in 9/11 (but not the innocent muslims)
You dont mind Irish terrorists?
You dont believe Paddy O'Gall is serious (maybe so, But who are you to choose who you will debate with, especially when your main defence is to critisise a poster who knows what he's talking about)
Your acting like spokesperson for Manhattan here, are you the only person in Ireland who knows someone affected by 9/11? NO. I lost my Godmother at 9/11, so your self pontificating ways are getting a little browning at this stage.
Also.... try .... to... stop... using .. full stops.... after... every couple of words.... Its hard to know what your saying.......

Rhodejim (Offaly) - Posts: 2888 - 17/08/2010 09:37:43    747772

ta32: "use your own brain hipster and stop for godsake jumping on the race card banwagon , because this about one of the WORLDS WORST ATROCITIES EVER",

May I refer you to Hiroshima and Nagasaki where 150,000+ people were killed almost instantly (plus many more in the intervening years) by 2 separate atomic bombs. Puts 9/11 into perspective.

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 17/08/2010 10:07:58    747791

Scruffy2donut: "Well, we dont know if there are terrorists involved in this project. We also didnt know that Pakistans secret service contained Taliban sympathisers until recently. Pakistan of course, who claim to be an "ally" of the west."

Yes we are surrounded by terrorists, your own brother could be a terrorist, stay afraid, your government will protect you!! And we'll return to fox news after the break......

Read Ghost Wars by Gary Schroen, a great book about CIA involvement in Pakistan/Afghanistan. They've known for years about the Pakistani intelligences ties to AL Qaeda since the Soviet War. While they were doling out cash and stinger missiles to the Pakistanis to give to warlords fighting the USSR, it was being dished out to Afghan warlords sympathetic to Al Qaeda with anti American bias. They knew all this was going on.

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 17/08/2010 10:17:22    747800

hipster

if the president of the USA says its ok well then it is

Now that made me laugh,

But just to analyse your comment,

George W Bush said it was OK to invade Iraq.
Lyndon B Johnson said it was OK to invade Vietnam.
Harry S Truman said it was OK to invade Korea.

These were Presidents of the USA and they said these things, so was it OK? If the American president said to drop the H-bomb on say an innocent country like Australia, would that be OK?

thank god he wont be listening or reading the hate filled comments on this site by the usual gang

Emm, no I agree with you there, that is highly unlikely.

And another thing, you claim Christian and Islamic fundamentalists are forming links with a view to collaboration. How did you come up with this ridiculous theory? Why would Islamic fundamentalists would want to team up with "infidels" as they call us.? If you can back up your claim however I will humbly eat my words.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 17/08/2010 10:23:38    747804

Scruffy2Donut
County: Cavan
Posts: 745

747804 hipster

if the president of the USA says its ok well then it is

Now that made me laugh,

But just to analyse your comment,

George W Bush said it was OK to invade Iraq.
Lyndon B Johnson said it was OK to invade Vietnam.
Harry S Truman said it was OK to invade Korea.

These were Presidents of the USA and they said these things, so was it OK? If the American president said to drop the H-bomb on say an innocent country like Australia, would that be OK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why would you equate these things with building a place of worship/religious centre? I (for what its worth) do not object to this being built where it is, therefore I would not object to Australia being H-bombed? Am I missing something? Who should I be listening to here?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12452 - 17/08/2010 10:36:12    747814

Breffni,

if the president of the USA says its ok well then it is

The anti-democratic overtones in that comment are astounding. It indicates support for absolute rule of the President. But I picked up on it for one reason. I wanted to know if the poster who composed it, would apply that principle to other events in history, where US Presidents also said it was OK to do certain things (those I have listed) with devastating consequences. Just because the President has given his approval does not in any way, make it acceptable.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 17/08/2010 10:52:07    747829

Bizarre. The Imam in charge of the project to build the mosque has been labeled a radical extremist for saying the same thing (almost word for word) about 9/11 as Glenn Beck.

Benandonner (Antrim) - Posts: 459 - 17/08/2010 11:45:15    747899

Lads I dont think you can relate the terrorist bombings of the IRA to the 9/11 attacks. Firstly, every one up north and presumably in England, knew the Irish and what they were like. I think its only 14 miles that separates Ireland and England at its narrowest point. Irealnd and England were (and still are!) democratic nations with a similar religion and a similar culture. With America and the middle-east its a completely different story. The governments of countries in the middle-east are (very) different to that of the States. I mean, you're not allowed show your face in public if you're a woman over there, also human rights and freedom of speech arent exactly prevalent. Also the dominating religions of the two areas are completely different. I'm not saying its right or wrong that Americans (which they probably do!) have a different opinion of Muslims to what the English had of the Irish and Catholics as a whole, but, they (IRA and 9/11 attacks) are certainly two entirely different events, and I dont really think its a valid point using the IRA attcks in a thread like this.

throw_it_over (Galway) - Posts: 769 - 17/08/2010 11:45:47    747903

Those murders decided to kill in name of there God, there are alot of good muslims out there and several Muslimes died in that attack as well

freetaker1 (Limerick) - Posts: 758 - 17/08/2010 12:42:28    747984

corrxxx.kerry.
for the record nagasaki and hiroshima were also wrong , remember this was a joint decision taken not just by truman churchill was also involved in the decision making as another poster pointed out the loss of live would have been twice that had the allies had invaded japan , the american public wanted the conflict brought to a end the bonds drive in the states was running empty , so they the decision to bomb japan with the a bomb , i mean look at iwo jima , okanawa , they could not sustain those casulties so dificult matters had to made , but it was wrong .
but getting back to the debate of the thread this is about a atrocity in new york , not japan , not belgium , not dresden , and the decision to build a mosque near the site of one of the modern day atrocities it has been ill thought , and i think it should not go ahead, simple .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 13:11:50    748033

rhodejim.offaly.
1.comparing to irish republicans.
2spelling mistakes of a poster.
3. by the way no ask my permission to built a mosque [ neither did the workers of the twin towers ask for 747s to be driven into their workplace ]
4.were did i say the life of a innocent muslim did not mean anything , i never stated that .
5. as being a sokeperson for manhattan , well no i am not , but if i see something is out of place or things are wrong i am entitled to voice my ipinion and my ipinion is this , this idea of a mosque been built near the site of 911 is wrong , and ill thought of that is my genuine ipinion , no browning invovled thank u.
also i would like to offer my sincere condolonces concerning your godmother that is very sad.
now rhodejim if u want to debate about this sincerly i will gladly debate , and try and use the above for argument purposes i am not going to entertain petty insults if u feel u want to dicuss the troubles of this island then discuss them , they are currently to threads set up for that , as for 911 and the conflict in the six counties they are totally unrelated .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 13:39:22    748095

yes well scruff he was elected president of the usa with a majority so he has the right to speak for those who elected him , we can go back over history and pick things out to suit ourselves like you did , but if they object to this mosque they are playing into the hands of the radical few . As for fundamentalists christians and muslims and jews well they are suppose to be forging links as they seem to believe that they are the chosen few and the rest of us are on the road to hell , you can believe what you want but the fundamentalists do share a lot of the same views only time will tell

hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 17/08/2010 13:55:36    748129