Seen the flimsy plastic mesh at last few matches and oh yeah that will really stop Kildare supporters who have been waiting for this since 1928, a Spartan phalanx armed with spears would'nt hold us back if we win the all Ireland this year never mind tellytubby stewards with plastic fencing.

bryanadams (Kildare) - Posts: 733 - 13/08/2010 13:41:15    745294

Its going up in the week between the two football semi-finals i hear !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 13/08/2010 14:03:17    745342

The ignorance on view in this thread is something else.

On the one hand, people are saying that this is being driven by insurance companies, health & safety concerns etc., while on the other hand, self-appointed 'experts' here are saying that it will create the risk of another Hillsborough, Heysel, Ibrox etc.
This doesn't make sense - the GAA are obviously taking these steps to improve safety and it's safe to presume that between their own H&S experts and those of their insurance companies' they are certain that this fence will enhance safety.

As for the people here who don't believe the fence should go ahead without more evidence of accidents or injuries during pitch invasions, you're basically saying that we should wait until someone is killed or seriously injured before putting it up.

The GAA have changed the Croke park stadium for the better from the point of view of spectator experience and health & safety (anyone remember the exit from the old Canal end?) over the last decade or more and preventing pitch incursions is simply the latest improvement.

hurling_lad (Cork) - Posts: 69 - 13/08/2010 14:27:43    745372

The stewards probably won't have too much trouble stopping anyone who's been waiting since 1928. They'd have to be nearly 90 at least!

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 13/08/2010 14:50:02    745399

Whats all this about people being injured running onto the pitch?

Has anyone ever being injured in the past 10 years running onto a pitch in Croke Park?
Because I haven't heard of it.

Yours In Sport,
Joseff

joseff (Louth) - Posts: 964 - 13/08/2010 15:09:03    745428

Hurling Lad, I'd have to disagree slightly. I suspect that the GAA and the insurance companies are NOT actually primarily concerned about peoples safety. They are more concerned about claims (and consequential higher premiums) which may arise as a result of pitch invasions. I think most of us could agree that compensation claims do not always arise as a result of REAL injury.

You asked if we should wait for somebody to be seriously injured before erecting a fence. I don't think we should. But niether should we erect a fence simply because somebody might, someday, be injured. We should establish the risk of injury by looking at the very many years of data on pitch invasions that are available to us. If the risk is high, then certainly the fence, or any other appropriate H&S measures, should be applied. I don't call that ignorance - I call it reason.

To suggest that a fence should be erected because there is a risk of injury to somebody, is like suggesting that the road should be closed because somebody might crash. It's all about the size of the risk. Nobody can deny its existance.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 13/08/2010 15:13:30    745433

health and safety gone mad in wee soft 2010 Ireland, pathetic. I hope the dubs win and rip that fence from its hinges.

CheFinny (UK) - Posts: 1358 - 13/08/2010 15:25:51    745447

Yeah Poland really lead the way in civilised support and refusal to bow to health and safety madness:

http://izismile.com/2009/10/15/omg_cage_for_4_pics.html

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12494 - 13/08/2010 15:31:23    745453

MesAmis
County: Dublin

They can exit all sides of the ground and if the GAA is serious about peoples safety after the match then they can take measures to ensure that patrons exit in different directions from the pitch.

Explain how to do this MesAmis

redandgreen (None) - Posts: 691 - 13/08/2010 16:21:05    745521

Hypothetical scenarion but still possible.

At the end of the All Ireland final the crowd surges on the Hill/ Cusack Stand/ Hogan Stand. A young child gets separated from their guardians and stumbles. They are trampled underfoot as the people at the rear cannot see the child. The child later dies of their injuries. A life is lost forever, parents are grieving, a community is devastated. The GAA and Croke Park is on national news world wide. Our country's and our Association's reputation is in tatters. Ireland is portrayed as the stereotypical shambles where the masses run amok.

What part does tradition play in this? Is it excusable that grown adults behave in such a way as to put others at risk because 'don't care' about the conditions of entry.
Does tradition mean that things never change or somewhere along the line do we have to accept that what has happened up to now is a disaster waiting to happen?

What the Croke Park authorities are doing is what every employer/ event co-ordinator and Public Servant is compelled to do by law. They are identifying risk and putting in place steps to reduce it. I firmly believe that we need to address the behaviour of our supporters. Drunkeness of a significant number together with a high stakes sports event needs careful management. The argument that "when has it ever happened is simplistic and lacking in foresight"

Calm heads and common sense tell us its time to put a stop to this before its too late. Is it worth a life?

caughtredhanded (Tyrone) - Posts: 602 - 13/08/2010 17:46:12    745615

caughtredhanded


those types of parables are used to convince people to do nothing. don't go to the shop in case a helicopter crashes into the meat counter and if there were twin babies in a pram at the checkout they would be lost forever. Dont walk to school for fear of a galloping donkey bursting through a hedge and headbutting you to death. Dont scratch your nose in case a leapracaun might get offended and latten you with his pot of gold. did you have a likkle cwy when you imagined your sad tale?

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 13/08/2010 20:00:26    745737

ochonlir

those types of parables are used to convince people to do nothing. don't go to the shop in case a helicopter crashes into the meat counter and if there were twin babies in a pram at the checkout they would be lost forever. Dont walk to school for fear of a galloping donkey bursting through a hedge and headbutting you to death. Dont scratch your nose in case a leapracaun might get offended and latten you with his pot of gold. did you have a likkle cwy when you imagined your sad tale?

Thats a great attitude alright,doubt you'd have that view if something serious happened to you or any of your loved ones,Please god it never will for your sake.
I was in the hill as a nuetral at the 02 football final and seen a young Kerry fan knocked over accidently at the final whistle only someone pulled him up quickly enough because if they didnt he was in serious trouble cause all the lads behind us wouldnt have known and just kept going trying to get onto the pitch.

BostonMan (USA) - Posts: 6 - 13/08/2010 20:54:54    745771

you're as bad as the doomsayer from Tyrone


someone nearly slips every day there are near misses in all walks of life, you are one of the cotton wool brigade


close the world someone is in danger of a minor accident!

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 13/08/2010 21:24:13    745804

Cotton wool brigade, I'm afraid not. I'm one of those people who don't believe that people should be able to do what ever they want regardless of the effects on the safety and well being of others.

Rules arn't made in this country by a show of hands, we have responsible people in positions of authority who make considered decisions for the betterment of all. For the record the thread title is sensationalist and repulsive. Using the names of stadium disasters to justify the invasions of pitches is nausiating.

Hillsborough...Crumbling 1950's stadium coupled with poor crowd management allowed extreme overcrowding in a terrace and people crushed to death
Heysel...Another old stadium , ineffective crowd segregation and crowd violence led to people crushed to death in crowd surge.
Ibrox...Barriers gave way on terracing resulting in people being crushed to death.

The only lessons learned from these disasters was that terracing is flawed and all seater stadiums are best suited to large crowd events. Any of you who have been to a Premiership game will know that to get up of your seat during a game is to invite the presence of a steward by your side. Large crowd events need to be flow managed so that fans can enter, use and leave the ground safely. When 30,000 enter a playing surface they put in danger themselves, their fellow patrons and the players.

Time to face facts, its had its day. Lets consign if to history.
Croke Park Pitch Invasions. RIP.

caughtredhanded (Tyrone) - Posts: 602 - 13/08/2010 21:54:48    745828

CheFinny
County: UK

health and safety gone mad in wee soft 2010 Ireland, pathetic. I hope the dubs win and rip that fence from its hinges.

I hope the GAA realise that this is the kind of ignorance they are up against

redandgreen (None) - Posts: 691 - 14/08/2010 08:58:02    745841

No one has been hurt invading the pitch, someone will be hurt on that cage, you make my words. Tear it down.

CheFinny (UK) - Posts: 1358 - 14/08/2010 10:33:30    745859

caughtredhanded
County: Tyrone
Posts: 527

Rules arn't made in this country by a show of hands, we have responsible people in positions of authority who make considered decisions for the betterment of all. For the record the thread title is sensationalist and repulsive. Using the names of stadium disasters to justify the invasions of pitches is nausiating.

Hillsborough...Crumbling 1950's stadium coupled with poor crowd management allowed extreme overcrowding in a terrace and people crushed to death
Heysel...Another old stadium , ineffective crowd segregation and crowd violence led to people crushed to death in crowd surge.
Ibrox...Barriers gave way on terracing resulting in people being crushed to death.

The only lessons learned from these disasters was that terracing is flawed and all seater stadiums are best suited to large crowd events. Any of you who have been to a Premiership game will know that to get up of your seat during a game is to invite the presence of a steward by your side. Large crowd events need to be flow managed so that fans can enter, use and leave the ground safely. When 30,000 enter a playing surface they put in danger themselves, their fellow patrons and the players.

Time to face facts, its had its day. Lets consign if to history.
Croke Park Pitch Invasions. RIP.

First and foremost them term "Pitch Invasion" is the wrong term to use when supporters enter the pitch at the end of the All Ireland Final. It is in fact "Pitch Celebrations" that happen, the heath & safety issue occurs as plans haven't been put in place to ensure these "Pitch Celebrations" ensure in an orgainised and safe manner.

We've been told of how the GAA are putting in new measures (Taller fencing, More Stewards etc) to ensure Patrons stay off the pitch, but this will cause more of a health risk. Knowing PLAN B will come into play once a few people make it pat the stewards, Supporters at the back of the Hill will push forward, this will casue cramping at the front, normally the gates are then opened but if there's a delay in this happening through Human Error at command level and by stewards sticking to exactly to what theve been told to do by the Stadium security, well then this is when there will be a High Risk or serious injury or worse.

No matter how many fences the GAA errect or how many yppeals they now convienently use the GPA to make, this WILL happen on the hill.

This risk could be eliminated if proper procedures are put in place to ALLOW PITCH CELEBRATIONS rather than to stubbornly try to and stop what WILL happen.

The GAA hierarchy have talked up the health and safety of their patrons, but they have now worringly taken measures to use "Netural Supporters" in the FIRST FOUR ROWS around the rest of the stadium as "HUMAN SHIELDS" to stop the supporters behind them from coming forward to make their way onto the pitch. Why should these paying customers be used as a HUMAN SHIELD, Where is the health & safety of these patrons taken into account in this wonderful masterplan??

Also whats the story with the ofen forgotten Nally Terrace, is the new taller fencing being installed there? I haven't heard any mention of it being changed, so if the fencing there is kept the way it is, won't supporters there have easy access to the pitch? Maybe the GAA are going to allocate this area to Netural Supporters as well!

As mentioned before massive concerts have been held in croke park, with proper procudures in place to ensure people safe entry onto the pitch and safe exit through different exit points as directed to by stewards & security.

If these same procedures where put in place for GAA matches in croke park, then SAFE PITCH CELEBRATIONS can happen.

RiceysBrother (Tyrone) - Posts: 125 - 14/08/2010 10:34:40    745861

Invasions/celebrations. Its just semantics dressing up an uncontrollable mass of humanity flowing onto a surface where they have no need to be. There is no way to organise a pitch celebration. The whole idea of that is ridiculous.

Fences & barriers don't hurt people, careless and thoughtless individuals hurt others by the consequences of their actions be it blocking thoroughfares or pushing down a terrace at the end of a game.

Folks, this is not another example of a nanny state at work, its simply what happens when the general public fail to accept change for the better. As we in the North know fine well tradition counts for nought when it threatens the well being of others. Tradition is not a good enough reason to keep allowing something which is inherently unsafe and has the potential to cause serious injury or death.

Do we have to have our stadium tragedy before we change? What will happen to talk of tradition then? How many must pay with their lives for the foolish pleasure of others and the pursuit of tradition.

caughtredhanded (Tyrone) - Posts: 602 - 14/08/2010 12:08:02    745920

Lets be honest about it lads pitch invasions are a thing of the past but if the G.A.A. thought they could get away with charging people to get onto the pitch they would do so and tell us that there is no danger in it at all. " Ten euro a head lads to enter the playing surface and see your team receive Sam " roll up, roll up !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 14/08/2010 12:33:32    745937

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 5531

i think you hit the nail on the head there!!!

toprow2010 (Kildare) - Posts: 214 - 14/08/2010 13:05:27    745966