icehonesty:

I think walsh may be afraid to put his stamp on the team after today changes are merited and i hope he makes these changes cork need to start building a new team and with a few certain players on that team at the moment i think it's hard for him to put his own stamp on the team....

Look at the subs kilkenny brought on today many of them contested finals against cork and could hold their place on the team that's a measure of a team the continues to evolve rather than get stuck on past preformances

Hag_and_Cheese (Tipperary) - Posts: 6103 - 08/08/2010 21:01:07    740287

When KK began their dominance it was claimed one tactic was to keep rotating the forwards until a fast man was up against a slower opponent, a tall one against a smaller etc. Now the tactic seems to be hold your positions. Perhaps that's Cody's secret, he keeps updating and evolving. Cork for me are gone too one dimensional. High ball into a big full forward and hope for the best. Reminiscent of Wexford & Tony Doran one time. Cork's game used to be loosely based on the Newtownshandrun model, run and pass. Walsh doesn't seem to have brought in any fresh thinking regards tactics

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1071 - 08/08/2010 21:01:12    740288

Maroonatic, youre dead right. Its hit and hope stuff. The only thing about Tony Doran was that he was a seriously good hurler. Aisake is hopeless. Even if they had Cussen in there instead they might have a chance.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2581 - 08/08/2010 21:58:04    740370

Any comments from PROC Hurler? Seem to recall there was much pontificating over what Cork were gonna do. And to that loud mouth Cork fan who was sat behind me for the Cork-Antrim quarter-final, saying how Cork were gonna turn over the Cats and that sort of thing. Can't say I'm overly disappointed KK won comfortably!

Tongo (UK) - Posts: 1795 - 09/08/2010 08:06:38    740374

cork weren't better with gerald mccarthy....
this team have been playing for years together and have been through so much on and off the pitch it's going to take its toll.
look i wouldn't be any fan of kilkenny but they are some team no doubt and gerald's team wouldn't have beaten them either.
i think cork's problem is that with the last few years they have had some of the finest players in the country and say for example the half back line of gardiner, sean óg and curran was always the same. during this time they should have been bringing on more players to fill these places when these players were not available but ii dont think they did... there was never anyone really challenging them for their starting positions.
however then you look at kilkenny and you see all the new players that they have brought on and there is a huge battle for places on the starting 15 there.

rebelsrock (Cork) - Posts: 550 - 09/08/2010 10:01:39    740444

Rebelsrock, I just feel that player power was partly to blame. I've seen it at club level, I've seen it at work, at school and in social scenes. It's all human nature. They were invincible and they let everyone know they were the invincibles and that they were in charge. How are they ever going to be dropped for a new up and coming player? It's not the ideal scene or atmosphere either for a new player to be breaking into. Unbiased officialls should be allowed set the tone for the good of the county and the county's future. Where management make the decisions, looking in from the outside, not the players. Opportunities in these circumstance are always possible but not when players have the power. Turkeys will never vote for Christmas as we all been told by the Avian Psychological Counsellors. And of course the castle eventually comes crashing down due to lack of stewardship and genuine, necessary, heartfelt support from officialdom.

By the way, I'll be wishing both Dublin and Cork the best of luck in the Semi and whoever wins, i'll be delighted to see have an opportunity to win the All ireland. So, this is not an anti-cork rant. It's a pro Status Quo argument. I'd be saying the same thing if it was any other county including Kerry (In fact Kerry were the first county to go on strike back in the late teens). I'm delighetd Kilkenny won in such fashion and showed that when players get on with playing and training and let management make the decisions that progress can be achieved. Don't forget, these players will eventually be managers and most managers were players. For the sake of the county and the sport it should never again be allowed to get to the stage it did in Cork.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 09/08/2010 11:17:02    740534

My point rebelsrock was that Cork played an incredible game while managed by Gerald against KK two years ago which they only lost by a couple of points, yet the players decided that they werent prepared well enough. Yesterday, a similar Cork team played a KK team with 12 of the same players as two years ago. And they were wiped out totally and completely all over the park but especially in the backs. Therefore, I believe that Cork were a better team under Gerald. They were in better physical shape, sharper skills, better teamwork, hungrier and had better match tactics.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2581 - 09/08/2010 11:28:26    740550

Tongo
County: UK
Posts: 1198

740374
Any comments from PROC Hurler? Seem to recall there was much pontificating over what Cork were gonna do. And to that loud mouth Cork fan who was sat behind me for the Cork-Antrim quarter-final, saying how Cork were gonna turn over the Cats and that sort of thing. Can't say I'm overly disappointed KK won comfortably!

and you'd wonder why we wouldn't like them down here, you said just said there what I find common with alot of Cork fans along with this 'we are cork' crap, whether it's a pure belief or whatever I just don't know, but they do tend to get ahead of themselves.

nok02 (USA) - Posts: 534 - 09/08/2010 11:35:24    740564

Rebelsrock, I just feel that player power was partly to blame. I've seen it at club level, I've seen it at work, at school and in social scenes. It's all human nature. They were invincible and they let everyone know they were the invincibles and that they were in charge. How are they ever going to be dropped for a new up and coming player? It's not the ideal scene or atmosphere either for a new player to be breaking into. Unbiased officialls should be allowed set the tone for the good of the county and the county's future.

even though during the strike i was supporting the players of 2008 i 100% agree with you on that!

rebelsrock (Cork) - Posts: 550 - 09/08/2010 11:59:31    740599

Strike is long gone lads. This defeat is the best thing thst can have happened Cork. Walsh can now make his own mark on the team as some individuals proved yesterday that they are past their sell by date. But a couple of points,
1 The defence actually played quite well, remember it was 10mins into the second half i think before a Cork forward scored from play.Every ball Cork cleared came straight back on top of them.
2 Whoever said Donal Og was useless yesterday is using one error to beat the man up. Not a fan of his by any means as a person, but in fairness richie Power never played the ball and imo it should have been a free out. Plus Donal og made a great save to keep Cork in the game in the first half.
3 Kilkenny are streets ahead of the rest of us, skill wise and physically, and this will not change in the near future I think. However one thing may be whether the formula will continue as smoothly when Cody retires?

Cork have played in some great games thoughout the years and if any county can regroup and pull a few players out of nowhere, its them.
I think Tipp have enough quality coming through over the next couple of years to through down the gantlet to Kilkenny.

curious George (Offaly) - Posts: 861 - 09/08/2010 12:24:41    740626

icehonesty
County: Wexford
Posts: 663

740550 My point rebelsrock was that Cork played an incredible game while managed by Gerald against KK two years ago which they only lost by a couple of points, yet the players decided that they werent prepared well enough. Yesterday, a similar Cork team played a KK team with 12 of the same players as two years ago. And they were wiped out totally and completely all over the park but especially in the backs. Therefore, I believe that Cork were a better team under Gerald. They were in better physical shape, sharper skills, better teamwork, hungrier and had better match tactics.

The team managed by Gerarld was beaten by 9 points. Very similar to yesterday. They put up a good show for 20ins and then Kilkenny powered ahead of them and won pulling up.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 09/08/2010 12:35:06    740643

Some good posts on this thread but I'll just say this:

1 - We can't keep beating Cork up over the strike. It's gone & their lads are back wearing the jersey again.
2 - Gerald McCarthy tried to change Cork's gameplan to being more direct. Denis Walsh is facing a similar dilemma now. Hard to say which tam was better really.
3 - Cork's defeats in the last 3 years have been 2 semi final losses to Kilkenny (no shame there) and defeat to Galway in 2009.

Cork have to rebuild, but we saw in 1990 what a Cork team in need of rebuilding can do.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6526 - 09/08/2010 12:59:01    740686

Denis Walsh and the cork players are not to blame for the beating they got yesterday. 15 against 15 and Cork were never going to win the that one. If the ref didnt show up yesterday and Frank Murphy stood in he wouldnt have swayed it Corks direction. Its a simple game hurling the better teams win apart from Tipp in the 60s when they beat up! better teams.

87LK100 (Limerick) - Posts: 65 - 09/08/2010 13:10:57    740701

87 lk100 are you forgetting all the other decades Tipp dominated in say the 50s too and also the only County in hurling to win an all ireland in every decade. Now when a Kilkenny or Cork team does that then they can be called one of the greatest of all time!!

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 09/08/2010 13:29:09    740737

don't bring up 1990 slayer! I still have nightmares!

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 09/08/2010 13:33:52    740747

Look Thurlesblues, we are the only county to do the double. We are the greatest county let alone team.

PROC_Hurler (Cork) - Posts: 203 - 09/08/2010 13:54:49    740793

thurlesblues,

you're gas, you keep changing the point of attack to suit yourself.

Ain't the roll of honour the only real measurement tool? And it reads

Kilkenny 32
Cork 30
Tipperary 25
Limerick 7

I'm happy to share the top 4 with ye ............. :-)

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6526 - 09/08/2010 13:57:04    740799

Lot of people on here haven't a clue so I'll try and help.

1. Cork were beaten by 9 pts 2 years ago, the game was a mirror of yesterday. Even for 20 minutes and then kilkenny pulled away. Both games were over at half time.

2. Strike or no strike this Cork team peaked in 2004, Its not the players fault that there is zero talent coming thru in Cork, they tried their best.


3. This Cork team owe nothing to no-one. They served Cork well. They were the only ones who give this Kilkenny time any sort of rivalry. If people think Tipp have a hope of matching them they should check their medication!

4. Underage structures is the secret to Kilkennys success, not Cody or any individual. The whole county is focused on it. If anyone wants to stop the 10 in a row they'll have to follow suit.

Redfoot (Cork) - Posts: 388 - 09/08/2010 13:58:15    740802

thurlesblues

You forget to mention that Tipperary went from 1971 to 1987 without even winning Munster never mind an All Ireland. Since 1971 ye have won 3 All Irelands. Greatest Hurling County of them all??? Give me a break. Since 1971 Offaly have won it 4 times, Galway 3 times, Clare 2 times, Cork 9 times and Kilkenny 15 times. Tipperary's hurling tradition stems from the 30s and the 50s. These days ye aren't even close to being the greatest of them all.

rebels89 (Cork) - Posts: 38 - 09/08/2010 14:31:26    740855

Redfoot
4. Underage structures is the secret to Kilkennys success, not Cody or any individual. The whole county is focused on it. If anyone wants to stop the 10 in a row they'll have to follow suit.

----

Indeed, Kilkenny are reaping the success of implementing a strong under-age structure 10 to 15 years ago. Cork have finally seen the light in the last year or two, largely as a result of the clubs rowing in behind the Senior hurlers stance against the County Board which has resulted in the decision to appoint 5 full-time coaches (still woefully inadequate in a county with over 400,000 population) and the establishment of development squads.

The problem is Cork are 10 years behind Kilkenny in adopting such a vision and dedication and unlike Kilkenny Cork will always remain a county where other sports will provide huge competition for the attentions of the younger generation. Dual players such as Ciaran Sheehan, Colm O'Neill and Aidan Walsh are likely to continue to focus primarily on football in the future which would be unheard of even 5 years ago. Cork need players like these to compete with Kilkenny but I would hate for Cork to ever adopt an exclusive focus on one code. Thankfully it will never happen.

The lack of underage success will really come home to roost when the likes of Donal Og, Sean Og, Curran and the O'Connors decide to retire from the game and people realize we do not have the players coming through to adequately replace them.

eviemonkey (Cork) - Posts: 308 - 09/08/2010 14:35:05    740859