Agreed, Id be one of them, but not one of them could put forward a logical framework and timeframe for how it could be achieved, other than "the EU or the US will pay for it". As such it will remain nothing more than pub talk and chatroom banter.

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 19/08/2010 14:29:15    750527

galballygael23
County: Tyrone
Posts: 171

750418 i find it ironic that when ireland was first partitioned and for a long time after everybody wanted us and now no-one would touch us with a ten foot pole.
the brits would dump us in a second and the south don't want a mess of an economy. woohoo the north

Don't let the handful of curmudgeons on here represent us all :)

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12494 - 19/08/2010 14:50:47    750554

Agreed, Id be one of them, but not one of them could put forward a logical framework and timeframe for how it could be achieved, other than "the EU or the US will pay for it".

Corrxxx I refer to an earlier post of mine were I attempted to outline a logical framework and timelime as to how it could be achieved:

Some Facts:

The Good Friday agreement was voted for by people on both sides of the border. It is an international treaty between two soverign states and has been lodged in the United Nations. It is therefore legal and binding and cannot be reversed unless by the expressed consent of both states who entered into it.

In the agreement when the majority of people in the 6 counties vote in favour a United Ireland it has to happen. It doesnt matter if a significant majority do not want it, re-unification must take place. There is no provision for a re-partition of the 6 counties or any other solution to that effect. Furthermore once a vote takes place, a repeat vote must take place every 7 years thereafter.

In the last Westminister elections the two main parties in favour of a United Ireland won 42% of the total vote. The two main Unionist parties won 40.2% of the vote, with the rest of the vote going to other parties (some of which are admittedly pro-Union). The Nationalist population is gradually increasing, the Unionist population which is gradually decreasing, no-one knows exactly how fast this change is occurring but there are numerous theories on the subject. The 2011 census in Northern Ireland will make interesting reading.

My opinion:

Looking at the facts alone it is therefore a very realistic proposition that a United Ireland will happen in the near future, my own estimate is within the next 10 to 15 years at most.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 19/08/2010 15:23:42    750616

Bigapple
County: Kerry
Posts: 250

750500 If put to a vote,I believe that the majority of people on the island would want a united Ireland.

Wanting it is fine, but what do you do with the minority that Don't

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 15:42:32    750646

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 456

My opinion:

Looking at the facts alone it is therefore a very realistic proposition that a United Ireland will happen in the near future, my own estimate is within the next 10 to 15 years at most.

And they all lived happily ever after

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 16:04:19    750688

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 456

My opinion:

Looking at the facts alone it is therefore a very realistic proposition that a United Ireland will happen in the near future, my own estimate is within the next 10 to 15 years at most.

Dont disagree with any of your facts. Were by some miracle the stats to change , say,tomorrow and the majority were to become nationalists, then it would start to become reality in LAW.

What about the ECONOMIC reality. Just because it can happen doesnt mean it would happen. Who would pay for the burdgeoning public sector in the north, the restructuring and re-integration of the norths education, welfare, health and policing departments to bring them in line with the south.
Let me repeat. The republic is BROKE. The ESB are talking about introducing a 5% levy on electricity, raising Euro157m and theres nearly a revolution. I could just jump on the bandwagon and say "lets make it happen" but it just wouldnt be that easy.

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 19/08/2010 16:16:23    750701

'The thread simply asks if people are in principle are for or against the reunification of their country. I feel that people who resort to speaking in hypotheticals about economics want to say 'no' but don't want to come out and say it so they resort to these hypotheticals.'

The thread asked a very simplistic question and some people are expanding on that by discussing the feasibility of reunification ever happening. I don't see anything wrong with that. The vast majority of people on this website, myself included, would want a united Ireland. However I would like to discuss the practicalities involved and the obvious obstacles that stand in the way and yet I'm shouted down for daring to stray away from the topic as if that's a grave sin

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 19/08/2010 16:17:08    750703

Corrxxx
County: Kerry
Posts: 92

750701 Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 456

My opinion:
The republic is BROKE. The ESB are talking about introducing a 5% levy on electricity, raising Euro157m and theres nearly a revolution. I could just jump on the bandwagon and say "lets make it happen" but it just wouldnt be that easy.

just a slight correction. All electricity suppliers will be applying this 5% levy, its been put on by the government to develop new sources of energy. Over the next few years we are going to be weighed down with charges, levies ,fines, tolls, fees and any other name that they can come up with for tax. After all one of the worlds great leader cannot be seen to be increasing taxes. They just want to keep a lid on things and who knows something might happen and they will get in again.
Every week we hear of new measures to help people who cant pay the mortgage hold on to their homes for a year or two. Sooner or later all these arrears will have to be addressed, but the government just want to hang in there in the hope of saving every seat they can. In the meantime we are borrowing 20billion a year to help pay for all these people that are collecting the charges etc. We aint seen nothing yet

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 16:41:34    750730

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1233

750703 'The thread simply asks if people are in principle are for or against the reunification of their country. I feel that people who resort to speaking in hypotheticals about economics want to say 'no' but don't want to come out and say it so they resort to these hypotheticals.'

The question asked is irrelevant, the point is that we get to hear the SF point of view on a regulatr basis. When this one fizzles out another one will kick in straight away.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 16:47:27    750737

And they all lived happily ever after

Except for dhorse who spent the rest of his days making silly sarcastic comments.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 19/08/2010 17:49:47    750810

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 457

750810 And they all lived happily ever after

Except for dhorse who spent the rest of his days making silly sarcastic comments

I'm living quite happily as it is. Forcing a million people to share nationality with me just because a few more than that want them to is not really on my agenda to the same extent as some people.

Do you really expect the unionists to say "ok lads theres more of them than us now lets form a united Ireland". Granted they might be forced/abandoned into a single country but i cant see much unity eminating from it, sarcastically or not

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 18:01:30    750824

Dont disagree with any of your facts. Were by some miracle the stats to change , say,tomorrow and the majority were to become nationalists, then it would start to become reality in LAW.

What about the ECONOMIC reality. Just because it can happen doesnt mean it would happen. Who would pay for the burdgeoning public sector in the north, the restructuring and re-integration of the norths education, welfare, health and policing departments to bring them in line with the south.
Let me repeat. The republic is BROKE

Corrxxx it wont need a miracle, within the next decade Nationalists should become the majority in Northern Ireland and then as you rightly say re-unification will begin to become a reality in law.

Again you and other posters have used the economic argument ad nauseam as the main reason why it cannot happen. I will repeat once again that I and others believe that an all-ireland economy is much more viable and will be more productive in the immediate long term. If this is not the case can you explain why the govt of the ROI is already paying millions of Euro for roads to be built in Northern Ireland?

I have already made points in previous posts in relation to funding that will be available through the EU and potentially the US, not to mention the fact that the UK will likely contribute for a period of time after re-unification. Furthermore how much re-structuring do you actually think will need to take place? Each jurisdiction has a police force, hospitals, welfare system etc already in place, its not the case that everything will immediately need to be changed overnight. Do you really believe it'll be a case of the govt running around the 6 counties changing PSNI signs to An Gards Siochana and the like!?

It's likely to be a gradual process evolving over a number of years thus not necessitating a massive immediate expenditure.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 19/08/2010 18:20:18    750853

Just to be clear, yet again on this thread. I am not a member of sinn féin and have never voted for them. I have nothing in particular against them. There's an attitude out of: "Oh he's a republican, those SF lunatics...." I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to be a republican, surely everyone should agree that it's a point of view that anyone could have, conservative or liberal, left or right etc etc.

Corrxxx
County: Kerry
Posts: 96

What about the ECONOMIC reality. Just because it can happen doesnt mean it would happen. Who would pay for the burdgeoning public sector in the north, the restructuring and re-integration of the norths education, welfare, health and policing departments to bring them in line with the south.
Let me repeat. The republic is BROKE. The ESB are talking about introducing a 5% levy on electricity, raising Euro157m and theres nearly a revolution. I could just jump on the bandwagon and say "lets make it happen" but it just wouldnt be that easy.

Corrxxx, the thing is whether economics don't want it or not states must follow the law. Certain states would find it very lucrative to fish more but international law says they can't. The law is not a la carte, you can't pick and choose. It will have to happen. The real question which this thread discusses, the be all and end all question really is whether northern catholics (don't like using religion in these things but i'm sure you all understand what i mean) will vote to leave the Union or not.
There will be referendum certainly in the next 20 years in both northern ireland and scotland. Both will be very, very interesting.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 19/08/2010 18:24:49    750858

If there should be poll at some stage surely it wont be just based one facet of whether people want a United Ireland or not. We will need to know what the consequences are of a yes or no for both sides of the arguement. I would vote for a united Ireland if thought there was a chance of it suceeding peacefully but would like to see the full package first. I know a sizeable minority want a united Ireland whatever the consequences and that seems to be what this debate is about

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 18:49:36    750884

dhorse, I don't think anyone said that they wanted to see it happen whatever the consequences. Nobody is advocating violence.

While I agree that a fuller picture would have to be given to the electorate I think we're stepping into unknown ground. Nobody fully knows the consequences. I would hope that the people who would be likely to cause the violence - loyalist paras - would be and indeed are already(?) (maybe a northerner would have a more informed opinion on this??) sufficiently weakened to cause substantial violence.

I'm interested to hear some people say that whitehall would give up the north in the morning if they had the chance. Is this the general feeling?? Is there not that remaining Tory feeling of clinging on to the empire?? I'd be interested in the views, again especially the lads and lassies from the north.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 19/08/2010 19:21:19    750926

will repeat once again that I and others believe that an all-ireland economy is much more viable and will be more productive in the immediate long term

ha aha haha hahahahahaha....

Bertie is that you? get back to the Dail...

as for your idea of handing out the begging bowl to the EU, US and Britain.....

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 19/08/2010 19:22:33    750927

There's no doubt the British would get out of Ireland in a heartbeat if they could, the amount of money they'd save makes it an easy decision. But that in itself is the problem, if the British can't support the North there's not much choice Ireland could

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 19/08/2010 19:40:19    750940

hurlinspuds
County: Cork
Posts: 427

750926 dhorse, I don't think anyone said that they wanted to see it happen whatever the consequences. Nobody is advocating violence

i didn't mean achieving unification throgh violence, i meant the consequences of what way the unionists might react if it was imposed on them simply because the had a few less votes in a referendum

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 19:46:23    750949

hurlinspuds
County: Cork
Posts: 427

. Nobody is advocating violence .

There are some people advocating violence. hopefully they can be outmanouvred but the people that took part in it for decades are not really in the position to condemn them for carrying on what they themselve started, albeit in different circumstances. The loyalist paramilitarie are probably weak but give a million people a cause and off we go again

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 19:51:42    750953

Sorry dhorse, I wasn't clear. I meant nobody on this forum is advocating violence. I was stating the obvious really.

This has been a very interesting thread.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 19/08/2010 20:44:26    751001