really this should not be about money , i would love a united ireland and if meant me being a little worse off then so be it.
but in time we could build our own economy every one of us and look forward to a land united and free.
arguing about the riches is a capatilist view , our nations freedom is worth twice that.


a old saying lads , a ounce of resistance is worth a pound of oats .

ta32 (Tyrone) - Posts: 4907 - 17/08/2010 18:39:47    748615

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2349


a old saying lads , a ounce of resistance is worth a pound of oats .

But is there any truth in it?

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 17/08/2010 18:57:55    748655

Don't worry pomeroy, I wasn't too upset by you deciding to start calling me names. I just thought it really funny that you said people resort to such behaviour when their arguments don't stand up, then you immediately start doing it. Very amusing. I don't call people names, I especially don't do it across an internet forum. It's like these ridiculous youtube comment fights, so many tough men behind keyboards...

Are you suggesting that me being from cork somehow cheapens my opinion?? I don't really mind whether people care or not. I simply want to give my opinion on a topic I'm passionate about and I like to read the opinion of others who I think are very well versed in the topic. Especially people from the northern counties.

I certainly don't mean to summarise your posts. I don't think I have done that. I have referred a good few times to you putting emphasis on money when it comes to the question at hand. I've actually said above that the economic argument is a serious one. I'm not sure why you're so offended I quote it, it is your belief. We're all entitled to our beliefs. This one is alot different from mine, perhaps that's why I find it so interesting.

I'm really sorry if you still don't understand what I mean when I talk about what it is to be irish (NB - just my opinion, not some kind of declaration as I've also said above). Every person who calls themselves Irish in my eyes should naturally want to reunite their country whatever it takes bar violence (selective quotation by you in your last reply). Having said this, I have no problem whatsoever with anyone calling themselves Irish. I have born and bred london mates who call themselves irish. I've no problem with irish americans calling themselves irish. I couldn't care less if pele started calling himself irish.

You're argument is really weak as regards my comment about doing what you can to reunite your country. The fact is that everyone can do a little. I don't mean just money as this does not apply for the present, (you like to argue in hypotheticals). People can learn irish, learn about the island's history, train kids in GAA etc etc. Remember bobby sands' words: "Everyone, Republican or otherwise, has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small; no one is too old or too young to do something."

I've mentioned bobby sands now so i guess you'll come back with lots of stuff about the troubles and put words in my mouth. We've already established above that i'm not a racist, i quite like english people, I don't have strong views on the troubles, i certainly don't think I have the right to tell people whether they're irish or not.....i just disagree with you on the economics of uniting ireland.

I honestly hope you stick to the issue at hand and stop making wild accusations and resorting to insults. Thanks.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 17/08/2010 20:23:15    748747

ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2366

748615 really this should not be about money , i would love a united ireland and if meant me being a LITTLE WORSE off then so be it.
but in time we could build our own economy every one of us and look forward to a land united and free.
ARGUING ABOUT THE RICHES is a capatilist view , our nations freedom is worth twice that.

Like I said I would love a united Ireland which my ancestors fought very hard for. But since we're not all drunk sat around a table waxing lyrical about the wonders of a 32 county republic and wondering why no one is doing anything about it lets get real for a second:

A LITTLE WORSE off doesnt even begin to surmise the financial burden it would put on the country. Flat broke, taxed to the hilt, knee deep in debt, zero job prospects. That would be the outlook for the common working, tax paying man. Not to mind the costs of integration of the Majority up there whom, like the elephant in the corner of the room, we cant ignore.

ARGUING ABOUT THE RICHES, again what riches. The riches are gone, the tiger is dead. Arguing about the finances IS a capitalist view and a very pertinent one too, its how we pay the bills.

A united Ireland. One day hopefully, but decades away if we're being real.

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 18/08/2010 10:09:37    749000

The finances simply don't add up, that's the realistic view. If we're ever in a position where they do add up and it can happen then I'm sure most people would be for it but that won't happen in our lifetime. That's the bottom line

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 18/08/2010 12:14:09    749161

PomeroyPlunkett you responded to my last post but did not address two of my queries so i'll repeat in the hope that you'll respond:

1.What was the title of the report you refer to, who was the author etc? I would be interested in reading it.
2. The fact is no-one can say for sure what the economic impact will be when there is a United Ireland.

The posters who state on this thread that its not economically viable for a United Ireland to occur have not once pointed us to some concrete evidence showing this to be the case. They merely speculate that there will be jobs lost and it will cost every person in the Free State money. In my opinion this is the mantra of partitionists who'se strongest weapon is convincing Irish people that they're not fit to rule themselves as a nation. Have a bit of pride for God's sake.

Some other posters bemoan the fact that the Free State is broke and therefore they cant afford the North. If the economy isnt working at present then trying something different such as adding a million and a half tax-paying, highly educated members to the work-force, who are used to lower wages and lower social security benefit entitlements, can hardly detract from an already stagnant economy!!

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 18/08/2010 18:19:02    749763

17/08/2010 18:57:55
dhorse
County: Laois
Posts: 5816

748655 ta32
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2349


a old saying lads , a ounce of resistance is worth a pound of oats .

But is there any truth in it?
___________
Not an Ounce

madasbutter (Mayo) - Posts: 872 - 18/08/2010 18:48:34    749805

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 454


Some other posters bemoan the fact that the Free State is broke and therefore they cant afford the North. If the economy isnt working at present then trying something different such as adding a million and a half tax-paying, highly educated members to the work-force, who are used to lower wages and lower social security benefit entitlements, can hardly detract from an already stagnant economy!!

Theres is the slight little obstacle that nearly one million of them dont want anything to with us

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 18/08/2010 18:51:42    749812

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 454


Some other posters bemoan the fact that the Free State is broke and therefore they cant afford the North. If the economy isnt working at present then trying something different such as adding a million and a half tax-paying, highly educated members to the work-force, who are used to lower wages and lower social security benefit entitlements, can hardly detract from an already stagnant economy!!

Theres is the slight little obstacle that nearly one million of them dont want anything to with us

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 18/08/2010 18:51:47    749813

Goodfella, Tir
County: All
Posts: 454


Some other posters bemoan the fact that the Free State is broke and therefore they cant afford the North. If the economy isnt working at present then trying something different such as adding a million and a half tax-paying, highly educated members to the work-force, who are used to lower wages and lower social security benefit entitlements, can hardly detract from an already stagnant economy!!

Taking on such a huge amount of civil servants would bankrupt the Irish state, if they made them redundant the huge levels of welfare would bankrupt the state. NI does not have an economy, it is a hugely subsidised part of the british economy and could not survive independently of britain. The republic cannot afford to take it on.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 18/08/2010 19:14:19    749837

Bad monkey, can you tell me how many civil servants there will be in Northern Ireland in 2040?? Can you tell me how the Irish economy will be doing in 2040?? How about the English economy?? Can you tell me the EU will not oversee and sponsor the change?? and the UN?? Can you tell me with any certainty that the UK will not partially fund the north for several years after the end of partition??
If these questions are answered with a NO, then you can't tell me with any certainty what the effects of reuniting ireland will be.

I want to see it happen in my lifetime. We can write Emmet's epitaph and know we did our duty just as previous generations did theirs.
I have two big hopes for ireland.
That's my political wish, reunification. The second is harder. Pearse said "not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well." I would like to show the world that what defines us is not showing that we're not british, it is showing that we are irish. Learn your language, know your history, play our games, listen to our music etc etc.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 19/08/2010 10:27:15    750174

Hurlingspuds great post, exactly the point I've been trying to make. No-one know'se with certainty what the economic circumstances will be yet there are posters on here who post with a foolish certainty that re-unification can only be economically detrimental.

They simple matter is they dont know, they assume it will cost people in the Free State money and spout on accordingly.

I for one agree with you that other factors such as American and EU funding will come into play whenever partition is finally ended. One only has to look at the amount of money the EU has granted to the PEACE funds which were instigated at the start of the peace process. There is clearly a willingness in the EU to support the democratic will of the people in Ireland. If the majority wanted a United Ireland they would undoubtedly support it. America when it wants a political solution has long since pumped money into a region it hopes to influence in a certain direction. Look at the money and support it has given Isreal over the years to keep that state viable. Again if the majority of people in the North expressly voted for a United Ireland I would be shocked in the US didnt provide financial support during the initial years until an all-Ireland economy was well established.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 19/08/2010 11:17:00    750246

Hurlingspuds - I would like to show the world that what defines us is not showing that we're not british, it is showing that we are irish.
terrific line, and exactly what too many people fall into the trap by not doing.

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 19/08/2010 11:26:59    750252

Hurlingspuds - I would like to show the world that what defines us is not showing that we're not british, it is showing that we are irish.
terrific line, and exactly what too many people fall into the trap by not doing.

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 19/08/2010 11:26:59    750253

hurlinspuds - my statement was of course based on unification at the moment. Not sure why you took it as 2040?

but to answer your questions about 2040 of course no one knows with absolute certainty what will ireland be like in 2040, we can only look at the evidence of the here and now. perhaps you could offer an opinion on the possible outcome of unification based on the country at present?

Also very sad to see Irish people still defining themselves as 'not being British'. Stop playing the victim, its embarrassing for other Irish people.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 19/08/2010 12:55:06    750375

Bad monkey. There's no point in discussing the economic finer points of reunification as ireland stands because the majority in the north still don't want to know about it. I think 2030 or 2040 are more realistic dates. There's only a point in discussing the economics of it when the political situation allows for it.

Badmonkey: "perhaps you could offer an opinion on the possible outcome of unification based on the country at present?"

Well bad monkey, reunification of the country at present......probably serious civil unrest over reunification when a majority do not want it....in economic terms. This reunification that happens against the people's will would not be funded by the irish republic, it would take international funding. However, such a discussion is ridiulous to me. Let's wait until reunification is on the horizon before talking about economics. The thread simply asks if people are in principle are for or against the reunification of their country. I feel that people who resort to speaking in hypotheticals about economics want to say 'no' but don't want to come out and say it so they resort to these hypotheticals. You're a prime example bad monkey.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 19/08/2010 13:06:43    750395

i find it ironic that when ireland was first partitioned and for a long time after everybody wanted us and now no-one would touch us with a ten foot pole.
the brits would dump us in a second and the south don't want a mess of an economy. woohoo the north

galballygael23 (Tyrone) - Posts: 235 - 19/08/2010 13:19:31    750418

Whoever the moderator on this thread is, obviously has a 32county agenda. None of my posts despite avoiding foul language, trading of insults, erroniuos facts or provocative statements have been allowed. No doubt this will be shelved too.

Corrxxx (Kerry) - Posts: 584 - 19/08/2010 13:52:16    750475

If put to a vote,I believe that the majority of people on the island would want a united Ireland.

Bigapple (Kerry) - Posts: 495 - 19/08/2010 14:10:49    750500

Corrxxx
County: Kerry
Posts: 87

750475 Whoever the moderator on this thread is, obviously has a 32county agenda. None of my posts despite avoiding foul language, trading of insults, erroniuos facts or provocative statements have been allowed. No doubt this will be shelved too.

That has been obvious for quite a while

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 19/08/2010 14:17:06    750506