dhorse calls himself a republican and then says: "their united ireland" as part of a derogatory remark.

It was meant as a derogatory remark towards FF. Sorry if it was personal.

Being Nationalist and Republican dont necessarily go hand in hand. The BNP And tory party are very Nationalistic

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 12/08/2010 20:37:57    744821

also may i add that "irish people" on the thread from both sides of the "border" arguing in terms of "ours" and "yours", "us" and "them" when talking about each other really says alot about the current situation we find ourselves in.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 12/08/2010 20:38:13    744823

hurlinspuds
County: Cork
Posts: 396

744801 PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1178

744769 'nor has 26 countys of ireland'

I think everyone is aware of that

What this thread does show is that it seems the huge majority from the 26 are for reunification and the massive majority from the 6 that watch gaelic games are also for it.

This thread shows very little really, For all we know there are only 2 of us posting on here.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 12/08/2010 20:39:59    744825

In my view the IRA were a terrorist organisation. Everyone who joined knew fully what would be expected of them. I don't view the British Army as a terrorist organisation. However individual soldiers perpetrated horrendous acts and should have been dealt with. In the same way I wouldn't view the United States Armed Forces as terrorists despite the actions of individual soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't think you did explain what you meant by saying you would sell your knowledge in explosives to Dissident Republicans in order to make money. I think you didn't even have the guts to stick by your opinion and so tried to backtrack which in turn made you lack even more credibility. There's a lot of different opinions on here but I respect the fact that people are saying what the think, even if it is different from my own personal opinion. To give your opinion, be pulled up on it and then feebly try to retract it was amusing though if nothing else. Also I'm fully aware I'm younger than you so there's no need to continuously bring it up. If that honestly is one of the ways you're going to counter my opinions then clearly you don't have much of an argument to begin with

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 12/08/2010 20:40:42    744828

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 285

744823 also may i add that "irish people" on the thread from both sides of the "border" arguing in terms of "ours" and "yours", "us" and "them" when talking about each other really says alot about the current situation we find ourselves in.

Very good point. The allegiance between Nationalists from North and South has diminished a lot since the 70s

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 12/08/2010 20:43:52    744831

and also the point about turkey joining the EU was never and has never been a question relating to geography. NATO (north atlantic treaty organisation has members all over the world, many not from the north atlantic). turkey is quite poor yes, but so was alot of countries joining the EU (ireland wasnt exactly rich). turkey is not a democracy, true enough but spain etc had those problems as well and turkey have already made concessions on that matter. turkey is predominantly muslim, now were getting closer to the point. most europeans are racist when they consider turkey, happy to go on a cheap holiday, but happy enough to return all the same. turkey has a huge population. very true but this only seems to be a problem when there is an abundance of labour.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 12/08/2010 20:49:46    744845

Just to clarify when I say 'should have been dealt with' I meant by the law and not the kind of punishment Omagh advocates

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 12/08/2010 20:55:37    744850

omaghredhand its funny where i grew up in south dublin there were loads of church of ireland lads, loads of catholics. nobody gave a **** because nobody cared about religion. we all played football, hurling, cricket, rugby...etc loads of craic them calling us planters/demanding their potatoes back, us offering them more soup...etc. Unfortunately the only place where religion was in any way an issue was in the GAA club - some of the old boys with genuine hatred for 'prods' etc and the local celtic heads in the areaof course. Thankfully religion still isnt much of an issue, hopefully NI will move that way soon

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 12/08/2010 20:59:17    744857

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2329

744857 omaghredhand its funny where i grew up in south dublin there were loads of church of ireland lads, loads of catholics. nobody gave a **** because nobody cared about religion. we all played football, hurling, cricket, rugby...etc loads of craic them calling us planters/demanding their potatoes back, us offering them more soup...etc. Unfortunately the only place where religion was in any way an issue was in the GAA club - some of the old boys with genuine hatred for 'prods' etc and the local celtic heads in the areaof course. Thankfully religion still isnt much of an issue, hopefully NI will move that way soon

Don't know what GAA club in dublin you played for in south dublin where being a protestant was a problem. I can tell you that I played hurling all my childhood with a fair few protestant kids and unlike you we didn't slag eachother because we didn't even realise that they were another religion. I know that they were made as welcome as any child who played. I remember the fuss caused by that protestant footballer getting abuse from the stands in fermanagh where the whole GAA community all over the country was up in arms about it.....not sure how it escaped our attention in south dublin! I can tell you that if you called a protestant youngfella playing with or against you something about their religion then alot of people would soon put you straight.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 12/08/2010 21:24:21    744896

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 2329

744857 omaghredhand its funny where i grew up in south dublin there were loads of church of ireland lads, loads of catholics. nobody gave a **** because nobody cared about religion. we all played football, hurling, cricket, rugby...etc loads of craic them calling us planters/demanding their potatoes back, us offering them more soup...etc. Unfortunately the only place where religion was in any way an issue was in the GAA club - some of the old boys with genuine hatred for 'prods' etc and the local celtic heads in the areaof course. Thankfully religion still isnt much of an issue, hopefully NI will move that way soon

Probably cause u were running around with your Rangers jersey on.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 12/08/2010 21:28:24    744903

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1181

744828 In my view the IRA were a terrorist organisation. Everyone who joined knew fully what would be expected of them. I don't view the British Army as a terrorist organisation. However individual soldiers perpetrated horrendous acts and should have been dealt with. In the same way I wouldn't view the United States Armed Forces as terrorists despite the actions of individual soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't think you did explain what you meant by saying you would sell your knowledge in explosives to Dissident Republicans in order to make money. I think you didn't even have the guts to stick by your opinion and so tried to backtrack which in turn made you lack even more credibility. There's a lot of different opinions on here but I respect the fact that people are saying what the think, even if it is different from my own personal opinion. To give your opinion, be pulled up on it and then feebly try to retract it was amusing though if nothing else. Also I'm fully aware I'm younger than you so there's no need to continuously bring it up. If that honestly is one of the ways you're going to counter my opinions then clearly you don't have much of an argument to begin with
12/08/2010 20:43:52

My point was just to make it clear to you is that I could understand why an ex -volunteer, not me personally (its called empathy) with knowledge of these things, who is unemployed may use his knowledge to make money. Given your penchant for financial gain, surely you could understand that. Now, just for clarity, not me personally, but an ex volunteer. I don't retract what I said, and have not retracted any of my opinions on this site since I started posting. I have no problem with your opinions, although by and large I disagree with them. What I do have an issue with is your extreme arrogance that you rubbish the posts of others who have live experience of the troubles. I have a fair knowledge of WW2 from reading books, but I would not be so arrogant as to rubbish the opinions of someone who was there. In fact your arrogance actually demeans and detracts from some of your more interesting arguments

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 12/08/2010 21:47:10    744922

'Of course your view of the troubles is different from mine, you got yours from a book'

That's one of the most arrogant comments I've read on these boards, perhaps you should practise what you preach. Also are you seriously equating people not wanting to give up their job for the re-unification of Ireland (which would happen to thousands upon thousands) with selling knowledge of how to kill and maim? I find it hard to take you seriously if I'm honest, you change your opinion too often to offer any coherent and substantial argument

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 12/08/2010 21:59:15    744949

Somebody said a while ago that this argument has been twisting on debating who did what to whom during the troubles. Can we get back to the original debate which was: Are you in favour of reunification?
This is a totally different topic and we're not sticking to the point. It has been alleged that reunification would constitute a shift of the expenditure on Northern Ireland onto the republic. The only reasons given against reunification seem to be economic. I disagree with this but I respect that it's a valid argument.

Who or what a terrorist hopefully has nothing to do with THE FUTURE of our island.

Pomeroy, Being from cork, I never preach to northerners about the troubles. I think it's a dangerous thing to do when I wasn't there. I would say to a lesser extent the same is true for you. I don't have strong opinions on the troubles but I do on the way I think my country must go forward. I will not be basing such a decision purely on personal gain/loss. Surely pomeroy you can't keep advocating here that we make such important choices based on greed alone.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 13/08/2010 10:28:16    745035

pomeroy - he doesn't change his argument, you just want to twist everything he says into something its not

abhainn (Galway) - Posts: 1000 - 13/08/2010 10:52:22    745056

PomeroyPlunkett
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1182

744949 'Of course your view of the troubles is different from mine, you got yours from a book'

That's one of the most arrogant comments I've read on these boards, perhaps you should practise what you preach. Also are you seriously equating people not wanting to give up their job for the re-unification of Ireland (which would happen to thousands upon thousands) with selling knowledge of how to kill and maim? I find it hard to take you seriously if I'm honest, you change your opinion too often to offer any coherent and substantial argument

Since when is the truth arrogant? I'm not equating anything with anything, merely making the point that as fiscal security is high on your priority that you would understand the concept of doing anything for money. I have not changed my opinion on anything, and going by the general comments on my posts as opposed to your own, it would appear that the majority on here would consider my posts sufficiently coherent and of substance.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 13/08/2010 10:57:42    745061

Having read Dan Breen's autobiography (My Fight for Irish Freedom) many moons ago, I was quite taken aback by one of his comments. He basically stated he was a murderer, no hesitation, he had deliberatley killed so he called himself a murderer. He had done so for his Country and had no regrets about doing it, it was his duty as he stated. That is a fact which anyone who has read the book can testify. The point I am making is that it is far to simplistic, if not idiotic to hold one generation as freedom fighters while denounce the next as terrorists/murderers. At what point in Ireland's history did this come about? What was the precise date when IRA Volunteers became IRA terrorists to some? I like Dan Breen see no difference in terms of morality or circumstance. Terence McSweeney dies on hunger strike as an elected representative in 1920, Bobby Sands dies on hunger strike as an elected representative in 1981. Tom Ashe dies while being forced fed on hunger strike in 1917, Michael Gaughan and Frank Stagg die while being forced fed on hunger strike in the 1970's. To try and differentiate makes no historical or moral sense. Unionists denounce every generation as terrorists, I don't agree, but at least they're consistent.

artisan (Down) - Posts: 1795 - 13/08/2010 11:45:26    745125

In response to Seanie's invite on Dublin page, I have to say that I have gone from strongly wanting a united Ireland to the belief that it is unlikely ever to come about. Well not in the sense hoped for by republicans at least - as a unitary state separate from UK. I beleive that the northern settlement has basically sidelined any prospect of a united Ireland for at least a generation. Besides, the way the world is now, borders mean almost nothing and we are likely to become more dominated by Brussels and European Central Bank than moving towards national independence and sovereignty. Sad but true.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 13/08/2010 11:53:40    745133

YES..................absolutely.................

...........Under the right circumstances and with plenty of conditions.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 13/08/2010 12:20:07    745181

Yes without a doubt

Yop (Wexford) - Posts: 362 - 13/08/2010 12:59:04    745240

artisan - the different is that terrorists target civilians, soldiers do not. Sometimes of course civilians will get killed in war that is inevitable but it is the direct targeting of non-combatants that defines a terrorist. Been a long time since i read dan breens book but i dont think he was the type of man who would plant a bomb in a pub or a public street

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 13/08/2010 13:35:20    745287