lads, the canadian popstar from kildare is making sense. On a serious note, i agree. No violence is the main thing, reunification through peaceful means as SF and the SDLP advocate and all parties in the south (offical line anyway).

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 11/08/2010 21:54:59    743786

I'm not trying to justify anything.I simply refute your claim that republicans embarked on a completely sectarian campaign.They did however commit many wrongs during the troubles and republicans have acknowledged this.As I have said before there is nothing glamorous about conflict.In different times and places all over the world people have found themselves in conflict situations.Ireland has had its fair share of these times also.My belief is that you should never "want" to be in a conflict situation,but alas events can spiral out of control,and many times and in many places people see their only option to be the taking up of arms.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 11/08/2010 22:05:30    743799

We owe it to the sold out 6 to find a way of bringing about a united 32 county ireland irrespective of the cost. It may not be practical for a few years given the financial mess that is the south at the moment but with a bit of forward thinking and long term planning a united ireland could be achieved within 20 years. This should be done in a democratic manner and should be done in a way as to appeal to both communities in the north. I ain't a fan of religion at the best of times as historically it has been used as a tool to control, devide people and cause conflict, as it has in the north. In this day and age I think most people particularly of the younger generations are well enough educated to see thru it and with this barrier broken ireland should be working towards convincing even traditional unionists that their interests would be best served by an irish government rather than a government in london who in all reality see their continued involvment in ireland as a burden to their own economy.

Another obsticable on the road is that and for reasons best known to themselves a lot of southerners are content with their free state and don't have the political will to see this happen. Some will say they dont want anything to do with the north, IRA, criminality etc. In the face of human rights abuses up to the point of borderline genocide in some cases the IRA was very necessary to protect the communities in the north. Granted their were some attrocities commited that one could not possibly justify but a debt of gratitude is owed to many who served to protect their people and the negative actions of a few should not tarnish this. If /hopefully when we reunite our country if it costs the existing republic some more pain financially (as it did in germany) then every true irishman and woman should be happy to embrace it.

JammyDodger (Meath) - Posts: 306 - 12/08/2010 10:48:14    743907

Well said Dodger.

I believe an orange hall was attacked in pomeroy last night. Those kind of things need to stop if we're ever going to make progress. While I don't understand/like the sectarian orange order, i don't think you're doing anything for the cause by setting alight a building like this.

I'm sure bad monkey and pomeroyplunkett would love if we all advocated such action but nobody will.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 12/08/2010 11:04:09    743924

PomeroyPlunkett you've managed to turn the thread into a 'who was right and who was wrong' during the troubles. There's absolutely no point even trying to debate this with you as its clear from your posts you see everything as either black or white. Shades of grey do exist however.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 12/08/2010 11:24:09    743945

A united Ireland is a state of mind to me I already live in a united Ireland becasue of the cultural and geographical links. To me the cultural unification determines a link the money you use government you pay taxes to is only a means for you to be abe to live your life, how you live your life determines your culture and therefore the culture I live is common with the island of Ireland, so I live in a united Ireland.

Alot of Nationalists in the the north live in their minds in a divided Ireland, they feel the need to hate prodestants orange parades etc. The support of Glasgow Celtic is a typical example, supporting a foreign sport in a foreign country as a means of expressing how Irish you are is a contradiction in terms to me.

Go to work, pay your taxes, be proud of your Irish beliefs, and be proud of your Irish culture. Repect your neighbour for their beliefs and you will be given respect for your own. The net result is you will have the confidence of you identity to live you life.

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 12/08/2010 11:25:40    743948

omaghjoe
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1038

Excellent post. Very well said.

Scruffy2Donut (Cavan) - Posts: 1112 - 12/08/2010 11:31:01    743957

As for getting Unionists to take part in our games it's an easy to say but sadly much harder to do. I assume we are united in total condemnation in Dungiven naming their Hurling club after a Republican terrorist? I also assume we are again united in condemnation of the use of Casement Park and Pearse Park in Galbally grounds for rallies held in honour of Republican terrorists as well

Kevin Lynch was a playing member of that Hurling club, the members of that club are entitled to name their club after him if they so choose. It's called democracy, the members within that club would have voted for it.

Pearse Park in Galbally was not used, the grounds of the community centre were used for this event which was adjacent to the field. It is not owned by the GAA.

Casement Park I believe was used for a commemeration - this was against the GAA rules.

I will not even go into the eccentricities of what is a terrorist save to say I do not believe Mr Lynch RIP or the others commemerated were as described by you. It must be nice to have a convenient name to label people who disagree with you politically.

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 12/08/2010 11:35:22    743964

Good post OmaghJoe.

jackieblue (Antrim) - Posts: 521 - 12/08/2010 12:31:28    744053

Which would you prefer cultural independence or political independence??

I often wonder. Did we just change the flag in dublin and nothing else? Are welsh people who speak welsh and make sure their children do actually more free in a way?? Then again, the political independence to say no to involvement in an illegal war for example is something to be cherished. These are big questions.

Once upon a time, being a patriot meant you had to take up arms. Of that, I have no doubt. Now, I think being a patriot can be in how you raise your kids. We can make sure our kids speak irish, play hurling and respect those who are different. Surely that's the freedom that the guys who had to pick up guns won for us! Unfortunately I don't think we're seizing it very well.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 12/08/2010 12:54:27    744088

Goodfella what is a terrorist in your opinion? Why do these men not fall into this category?

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 12/08/2010 13:27:31    744145

If a majority of people in NI and ROI voted for a united ireland i would happily accept it. This is very unlikely to ever happen though. Trying to achieve this aim through violence is wrong and always has been wrong. Attacks by both sides on GAA clubs, orange halls..etc are pathetic and those responsible should be condemned by all people.

From my own experiences the people and the places in NI are more similar to scotland and northern england than the ROI and are getting even more so as time goes on. I absolutely agree that anyone born in NI can call themselves Irish and be an Irish citizen, equally goes for anyone who wants to be British.

As for the GAA, yes clubs are free to name themselves after anyone they want, if they want to be Naomh Santa Claus then so be it. But if they name clubs after IRA members then they shouldnt come out with guff about how 'it would great to see unionsit kids playing GAA..'.
Regarding the flag and playing the anthem, again of course the GAA can do this but everybody knows that flags/anthems are divisive in ireland, probably more so than anywhere, so if they keep playing and flying these symbols they shouldnt come out with bull about wishing all sides of communities would play, great to see a unionist captain of antrim...etc Its ridiculous lip service, if you really wanted the GAA to be a cross community game, supporting such simple gestures as having no flags or anthems at matches/clubs is the only way to show it - actions, not words.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 12/08/2010 13:42:26    744173

Once upon a time, being a patriot meant you had to take up arms. Of that, I have no doubt. Now, I think being a patriot can be in how you raise your kids. We can make sure our kids speak irish, play hurling and respect those who are different. Surely that's the freedom that the guys who had to pick up guns won for us! Unfortunately I don't think we're seizing it very well.

+1

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4678 - 12/08/2010 13:59:52    744210

County: USA
Posts: 2326

744210 Once upon a time, being a patriot meant you had to take up arms. Of that, I have no doubt. Now, I think being a patriot can be in how you raise your kids. We can make sure our kids speak irish, play hurling and respect those who are different

perhaps encouraging them might be a better option,, making them we've had enough of.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 12/08/2010 14:15:30    744250

PomeroyPlunkett I dont believe in the term 'terrorist'. I think it's simply a convenient term used to demonise one side in a conflict and legitimise another. The well worn phrase 'one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter' springs to mind.

A simple example from the Irish context:

The IRA killed men, women and children and were called terrorists. The British army and police-force killed men, women and children and were called security forces. What's the difference?

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 12/08/2010 14:21:15    744262

From my own experiences the people and the places in NI are more similar to scotland and northern england than the ROI and are getting even more so as time goes on. I absolutely agree that anyone born in NI can call themselves Irish and be an Irish citizen, equally goes for anyone who wants to be British.

Regarding the flag and playing the anthem, again of course the GAA can do this but everybody knows that flags/anthems are divisive in ireland, probably more so than anywhere, so if they keep playing and flying these symbols they shouldnt come out with bull about wishing all sides of communities would play, great to see a unionist captain of antrim...etc Its ridiculous lip service, if you really wanted the GAA to be a cross community game, supporting such simple gestures as having no flags or anthems at matches/clubs is the only way to show it - actions, not words.

The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes. Thus, the GAA is a nationalist leaning organisation and therefore the flying of the national flag and playing of the national anthem is entirely in keeping with the organisations aims. I assume that the numerous diaspora from europe, africa and beyond playing gaelic games have no issue with the flag or anthems, therefore if unionist leaning people have a problem this is not a problem of the GAA's making. The very fact is, that by definition a unionist does not want to be part of the Irish culture, therefore why should we try to coerce them into it? The lip service you speak of actually annoys me. If they want to play an Irish sport then let them do so. If they do not, so be it. The association should not be forced to change its aims and ideals to accomodate those that do not share its aims. I do not ask that GSTQ is not played at international matches in Windsor Park, nor do ask that the royal ulster flag is removed. If I want to go and watch NI then I will do so. I do expect that they will change their haits and customs for me.

As regards to having more in common with Scotland and England, can you please explain a bit further what you mean by this? The only commonality that I have with these people is that I pay taxes to the same government. I was going to say speak the same language as well, but that would cover the whole of this island wouldn't it? I follow GAA games and pastimes, I speak some Irish and I like Irish music like quite a number of people up here. It is also interesting to note that the gaeltacht in Belfast is growing quicker than any other Gaeltacht area in Ireland. So how do you justify that statement

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 12/08/2010 14:21:30    744263

I wouldn't say that we have more in common with those in Scotland or Northern England but we have more in common with Protestants/Unionists than we do with those down south. I have more in common with my Protestant next door neighbour than I do with someone from Dublin. For too long an us and them mentality has held this country back and one way of bringing people together is through sport. The IFA have made great strides in this regard in recent years, can the same be said for the GAA? Sadly I don't think so.

Goodfella I view all those who killed and continue to do so as terrorists, in no way do I view Loyalists as being more legitimate as Republicans or vice versa

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 12/08/2010 14:49:21    744308

Goodfella I view all those who killed and continue to do so as terrorists, in no way do I view Loyalists as being more legitimate as Republicans or vice versa

Not being pedantic, just want to clarify, do you view the British army and the police-force who killed people as terrorists also as per the point I made previously?

Goodfella, Tir (None) - Posts: 1652 - 12/08/2010 15:26:25    744359

Could you develop that statement please PP. What more have you in common with your Protestandt/Unionist neighbour than someone in the south? Secondly, the IFA and the GAA are incomparable in my view. The IFA are there to promote an international game within their geographical remit and the GAA are there to promote "IRISH" sport, language, mucisc and culture.

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 12/08/2010 15:45:46    744396

"And you dare to call me a terrorist
while you look down your gun.
When I think of all the deeds that you have done.
You have plundered many nations,DIVIDED many lands,
and you brought this reign of terror to my land."

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/08/2010 16:06:32    744440